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View Full Version : Jack's Correlate Program (V3)



rcasio44
06-24-2010, 08:18 PM
I've been working with the correlate program lately. It runs nice and quiet for me and I like it when hunting in town with all the power lines giving off EMI. So Jack I think the program needs it's own post so I can find answers easier. By the way I'm running the D2.

Lets start off with the span setting. You are running 35. We've both read about some others touting a much lower span. Is the 35 needed for the deeper targets? What I'm getting at is a smaller span will eliminate more trash, but will the narrower span miss the deeper targets?

You are running RX10. Is there any reason? Is a higher RX too noisy where you hunt. It seems like I can get 12 or 13 with no more noise noticed. I'm running Disc 94.

Since you are not using the DX1, why the higher All Metal?

These will get me started, more questions to follow. Rob

CyberSage
06-24-2010, 09:56 PM
Hello Rob!

Let me start off by posting the current version of the Correlate program I am using in my hunts. The objective of this this program is to dig deep old coins as well as shallower coins being masked by adjacent targets. The program was designed for moderately mineralized ground in a park or grassed environment. The program is a work in progress and is continually being modified using the stock D2 coil.

Choose the Coin & Jewelry from the presets and make the following changes...

Discrimination
Accept (-95 to +95)
Reject (nothing)

Notes: Set your accept range to include all numbers

Sensitivity
Rx Gain (11-12) I choose this setting based on each area I hunt. Quite often I have this a s high as 12.
Discrimination (93-94)
All Metal (75) I have adjusted this up from 70 again. It's just a lot easier to pin point deep targets

Notes: Set your sensitivity to where your detector is stable. Do not sacrifice Discrimination sensitivity for Rx Gain. Keep the Discrimination sensitivity as high as possible. To much RX Gain will cause more problems with deep iron sounding like good targets. I have a sweet spot I like with the RX at 12 and DS at 94 if there is no EMI issues.

Ground Tracking
Speed (20)
(I am now using Lock Track on a regular basis if my hunt area appears consistent.)

Frequency
Correlate (ON)
Span (45) I have opened up the Span from 35. This makes things a little more noisy, but helps pull out good finds in trashy areas.

Wrap (-94)


Filter & Speed
Ground Filter (5Hz Band Pass)
Recovery Delay (105) Bumped this to 105 from 100.

Notes: In addition to favoring a very slow swing speed the 5Hz filter settings have a pronounced effect on quieting EMI. If your mineralization strength is really high in your soil you might have to bump the filters a little higher. This is a good setting to experiment with in a coin garden or preferably over a possible good target in the field. My soil is moderate and the 5Hz filter with out question gets me deeper.

Audio
Tone ID (ON)
Modulation (ON)
Range = (4 on V3) or (2 On V3i)

Set your Tone ID Mode to Custom and make the following changes to the tone values.

+95 = 255 (Set this to 0 if things get to noisy)
-95 = 254 (Set this to 0 if things get to noisy)
-94 to 0 = 0

Leave all other tones unchanged. This is preference for my hearing. If you want to really quiet things down you can set +95 and -95 to -93 to 0. You will run the chance of missing a really deep target, but if the targets are running 7 to 9 inches you should be OK.

*Notes: Simply change all the VDI ranges you do not want to hear to a setting of 0

As you can see there has been some changes. Lets look at them in order as they appear.

All Metal has been raised back up to 75. I decided it was easier to pinpoint deep targets and just raise the coil farther from the ground on shallow hits.

Ground Tracking has been adjusted from 15 to 20 a slightly faster rate. I do manually ground balance every once in awhile to verify that I am still good. I very rarely get noise form the coil when I do this. I think Whites got this feature right. I will however use locktrack in single frequency modes. I do find that things seem to detune and wonder a bit in the 2.5 kHz modes.

UPDATE: I have given in to using Lock Track set to ON these days. Much quieter.

Span setting is still the same. I use a more relaxed span setting to accommodate coin spills and targets where there is a coin along with an undesirable target such as deep iron. I base this setting on my results over many many targets in the field. I have almost 700 old coin targets to date with the V3. Mostly those darn Wheat Pennies! lol On many an occasion I have adjusted this down to see how tight I can set it before the target starts breaking up. A setting of 35 seems safe to me and I still get the benefits of a quieter hunt in my soil. I highly recommend you personalize this adjustment to your individual taste keeping in mind that to short of span will cost you those iffy signal finds, and to little will be noisy enough that you might as well be using Best Data. note: I now have this at 45. It's not that much noisier.

Recovery Delay is set so those deep coins sound great. faster recovery settings will cost you depth. Take your time move slow and methodically. You will see in short order those Silver Dimes start to add up. Masking is a result of to fast of swing speed for your Recovery Delay. A slower setting will not mask good targets if your swing is slow as well. Swing slow and cross check possible good hits. I can not stress this enough. If you are out weed whacking with your coil off the ground and to fast of recovery you will just be leaving those coins for Angel to find when he makes it to your neck of the woods. lol

Last but not least lets dispel the idea that this program is designed for the ultimate in depth. It will get you very deep targets. Is it the deepest? No. Is it deep enough? If your coin is less than 10 inches down your going to be just fine. This is largely dependent on your mineralization strength. I feel that 10 or 11 inches is at the far end of the scale for the V3 to accurately identify targets. Once again this is dependent on soil conditions. There will always be anomalies and special circumstances, but they are far and few.

Keep Swing'in
Jack

EDIT: Apparently the VCO by default is turned off in the V3i version of the Coin & Jewelry program. This needs to be &quot:daydream:N to help with accurate pin pointing,

randy
06-25-2010, 05:35 AM
What is the purpose of accepting -30 to -92. Will you hear good targets in this range? Will you be telling them from deep iron with a dominant 2.5 response? I get alot of iron dominant at 2.5. A little confused by this :confused:, thanks.

CyberSage
06-25-2010, 07:31 AM
What is the purpose of accepting -30 to -92. Will you hear good targets in this range? Will you be telling them from deep iron with a dominant 2.5 response? I get alot of iron dominant at 2.5. A little confused by this :confused:, thanks.


Hello Randy,

The concept of this program is to speed target response by accepting all targets. By setting the Custom tones to 0 you will not hear any response in these areas. If you have a good target next to deep iron you will not get a discrimination null but rather a tone response. You just don't hear the iron tone because it is set to 0. This is purely theory but I am finding a lot of coins in the same hole as iron and junk now. I am sure these targets had been missed before because of masking caused by nulling. You still run the risk of masking, but the low filter setting combined with a slow recovery delay allow for extremely slow swing speeds which help a lot with this problem.

Jack

Edit:I have edited the above tone setting guide to be a little more clear.

rcasio44
06-25-2010, 11:00 AM
Thanks Jack,

I figured the wider span was for deeper targets as the numbers jumped around more.

I'll give the 30 setting a try on the negative numbers.

Other than I have my positive numbers blocked off the way I like them we are running the same program. I agree it may not be the deepest but 10 would fit my bill. Rob

grnd pounder
06-27-2010, 04:37 AM
Jack seems like this line got left out of the latest correlate program settings.

Simply change all the VDI ranges you do not want to hear to a setting of 0.

your correlate program has become my main one.

CyberSage
06-27-2010, 08:29 AM
Thanks for catching this. While I have specified the ranges I have set to 0 you certainly can exclude any individual or range of VDI's to 0 so as not to here a response. You can really have a quiet hunt if you just are after higher conductive coins. This would be reminiscent of the accept/reject settings of the factory &quot:grin:eep Silver program which accepts +65 and up. Thanks again for your input Pounder!

Jack

* I have added this back into the program description.

rcasio44
06-27-2010, 01:40 PM
I ran the program yesterday and all was good. The spot I hunted sucks but I managed 6 deep Wheats. I ran RX 12 with no problem and ran LockTrac. I tried 5 high pass and saw no increase in noise. Except for my tones, all the rest was the same. My nickel VDI is the same as my high coin tone. I was getting some jumpy VDI but the tones were good. I did dig some of the Wheats with junk in the hole. I got one target jumping 40's to 80's and dug a nickel. I knew that wasn't right and found a penny deeper in the hole. Still working for what is best.

By the way Jack I'm still running a good D2. Rob

CyberSage
07-09-2010, 06:25 PM
I started experimenting with the Salt Compensate version of the Correlate mode. I read about this setting on another forum and found it intriguing. So far it is hands down they way to go in a High EMI environment. Rock solid and very stable. The verdict is still out on depth, but I will let you know. I am using the 1:blackeye:12 SEF in the park and I can crank it to 14 on the RX and 95 on the DS. Pretty amazing. I have a feeling the field is much more constrained and I am paying a price on depth. A few deep finds, and a little experimenting before I dig will bring to light the benefits and or disadvantages of this mode. It sure whacks the hell out of my coin garden which is heavily infested with EMI. Stay tuned...

Jack

CyberSage
07-12-2010, 08:31 PM
I received my new D2 coil today. I will continue to experiment with the Salt Compensate mode and let you know my results. I used it exclusively with the SEF coil this last weekend and had good results. I have not had a deep target to test things out on as of yet. I may switch back to my correlate standard program and cross check with the SC mode. Life is good!

Jack

Rx
07-29-2010, 01:32 PM
Jack,
I realize I am catching you totally off guard with this but I have been reading some of your post in various forums and thought you might be the one to answer a simple question. First a little back ground. I do not currently own a metal detector. I did once upon a time buy a Tesoro Micro Max for my son who used it for about 2 days before giving up on it. I used the Tesoro for a few months and never really mastered it with it's limited manual controls and lack of documentation. I am an electronics integration specialist which I guess mean a techie. I understand buttons, knobs,programming, EFI, EMi, RF and a lot of other technical theory. The programming changes and how these changes affect device performance is totally understandable to me. I have been looking at the V3i for some time trying to make a decision... I am fairly confident that the V3i is something I could relate to. I also realize you get what you pay for and also you get out what you put into something. My question to you is this... Should purchasing a V3i be considered a hobby with no return on investment expected, or can one expect to it to pay for itself in selling what you find?

rcasio44
07-29-2010, 04:23 PM
I'm not Jack but let me answer your question. I consider metal detecting a hobby, but I have covered the cost of all my detectors with my finds.

I'll probably do about $450 in clad every year. I've got 3 gold rings so far this year. Then there are the silver coins. Will I get rich, NO. Will I pay for my V3i, yes. Will it happen in one year, not for me. Compared to golf it is a cheap hobby. How much you find depends on location. I don't get the oldest coins like the East coast, the relics like in the South, and the greater number of rings like the guys near the beach. Rob

coinnut
07-29-2010, 06:41 PM
I agree. It's definitely a hobby that can turn pro if you choose to. Most of us are weekend warriors lol and we can still manage to pay for our machines. The easiest way is to hunt for clad, but the occasional gold ring would help a lot thumbsup01 Beaches always are a spot that, with luck and/or skill, you can recoup your funds faster. But if you treat it as a hobby, it will never fail you. Just my thoughts on it.

CyberSage
07-29-2010, 06:44 PM
Should purchasing a V3i be considered a hobby with no return on investment expected, or can one expect to it to pay for itself in selling what you find?


Rob and Coinnut have summed it up very nicely.

This is only a question you can answer yourself. The investment of purchasing a high end detector for me was to give myself the best chance possible to uncover the history that surrounds me, and is hidden just beneath the surface of the ground we walk on. The $1500 I paid for my V3 is what I consider to be an inexpensive ticket for the journey this Time Machine will take me on. So what you must define for yourself is the term return. You will surely over the years find enough coins and jewelry to pay for the detector, but you will pay for it a lot sooner if the treasure you are after is one of pleasure, relaxation, and knowledge.

Jack

yazoo
07-30-2010, 06:27 AM
Well said Jack :beerbuddy: Yazoo

Schrecky
08-06-2010, 04:08 PM
Hi Jack, Any updates to your program? I use it most of the time.

CyberSage
08-06-2010, 06:11 PM
Hello Schrecky!

I have made some minor adjustments but nothing earth shattering. I will get things updated this weekend. I am really happy to have my D2 back. Hope things are going well for you in your coil exchange.

Jack

CyberSage
08-19-2010, 07:30 AM
I have made some small adjustments in the program. I now have the modulation set to on with a range of 4. I had a noisy park and this helped quiet lot of the high pitched chirps. If you are hard of hearing you may not want to use modulation as it has the potential to quiet really deep coins as well. I have been using this a lot lately and thought I would share it.

Jack

Schrecky
08-27-2010, 04:55 PM
Jack, I see on another forum that you feel that the Modulation Range setting of 4 on the V3i helps a lot with high pitch responses to deep iron. That was a problem for me in my area with the DFX and Jeff Foster had me turn off Averaging so that you could see the small neg spikes from the iron on the graph. I'm having the same problems with the V3i, lots of high pitches from deep iron. Your tests show that setting the Range to 4 will help me with that problem?

CyberSage
08-27-2010, 05:54 PM
Hello Schrecky!

That was an interesting thread on the other forum. lol It won't make the chirps go away, it just makes their volume drop and give a weak response. Much more tolerable in my opinion. I actually almost got banned for posting links to outside reference material on the Whites forum. I received a very strong reprimand for my outrageous behavior of trying to present facts. Imagine that. It does have a pronounced effect on quieting the V3 in the deep iron, +95 noisy areas. I am in the crowd that believes that to much silence when you hunt means you are missing good finds. The ground is an ever changing spectrum of response caused by mineralization and bits and pieces that have been left behind by man, including the coins we look for. This vast phase shifting landscape accurately represented by a detector should be very noisy. Our job is to quiet it enough to let the good stuff jump out and bite you on the leg when you swing over it. Your swing speed will play a big part in quieting your V3 down. If you are using a low filter setting and swinging to fast you might as well have a monkey with a tin cup on a leash, because your detector is going to sound like an organ grinder. lol Give it a shot Schrecky. Let us know what your observations are.

Jack

Schrecky
08-27-2010, 07:35 PM
Thanks Jack, I appreciate your input and thought your posts on the other forum were completely in line.

rcasio44
08-28-2010, 12:08 PM
Jack, we have all had your experience over there. I read but gave up posting. I don't used modulation but will give it a try. That would be 2 for the V3i, correct. Did you ever notice there are only 2 people posting and everyone else following. Like the 6x9. It's good but I use use the 10 most of the time. According to them I have to be wrong. :beatdeadhorse: Rob

yazoo
08-28-2010, 12:29 PM
Yazoo is thinking if it be the same knuckleheads i'm thinking of that group of two gurus, have a very damaged main spring .I look at them as amusement and watch the ones that dont think for themselves follow .I would like to hunt behind those people. My self I can tell who knows what and who teaches to the good of others.No loss over there. Yazoo

CyberSage
08-28-2010, 07:17 PM
Hey Yazoo!

Great to see your post friend. Hope you get some swing time in soon. Man, I about beat myself to death today with the 6X9 coil. Got skunked good. I have been getting silver every hunt for the last 6 or 7 hunts. Today I got 1 Wheat. I will be switching back to the D2 next hunt. I did find a nice Merc with it the last hunt before this one, but I just don't get the depth I am used to with the D2. Good for trashy areas though.

jer4004
09-01-2010, 07:57 PM
Jack, we have all had your experience over there. I read but gave up posting. I don't used modulation but will give it a try. That would be 2 for the V3i, correct. Did you ever notice there are only 2 people posting and everyone else following. Like the 6x9. It's good but I use use the 10 most of the time. According to them I have to be wrong. :beatdeadhorse: Rob


I quit posting over there its absolutely pointless I tryed a couple of times and its pointless. Unless your one of two people your ignored. Lets see if you use any other coil but the 6x9 your wrong,if you dig a nail every once in a while there must be something wrong with your detector if you use modulation your missing coins what a joke. Why White's let that stuff fly is beyond me. For me modulation was the key to picking out some deep coins. For a while they were telling everybody to use the 22.5 freq by itself for deep silver?? I am glad that went away.

jer4004
09-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Yazoo is thinking if it be the same knuckleheads i'm thinking of that group of two gurus, have a very damaged main spring .I look at them as amusement and watch the ones that dont think for themselves follow .I would like to hunt behind those people. My self I can tell who knows what and who teaches to the good of others.No loss over there. Yazoo


AMEN to that its nice to see I am not alone in my thinking.

little man
09-09-2010, 07:19 PM
aman to all they think we all are lost and they are the light well I dig some iron all day long to get two are three silver in my hand

CyberSage
09-28-2010, 02:20 PM
Made a few more adjustment during the weekends hunt over several deep finds. Nothing big, just some tweaks. I added comments to the changed settings.

Jack