AT Gold vs. T2 vs. G2/GBP - for detecting needles

[Klaus]

Hi everyone,
I am new to this forum, and won’t be of much help to you guys, since I know not much. But I hope, in near future it will change.
My request may seem a bit strange, since most of you search for other much more valuable things than sewing needles http://tnet.forumfoundry.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley.gif.
I need to buy a metal detector for my work/hobby as a tailor. Its main purpose is to detect sewing needles or pins in the things I make. I do not want it to be a large standing machine (as are used in big sewing fabrics), but rather a regular detector. For the last couple of weeks I have read really a lot on the subject, called sellers, asked owners, and I know that pinpointers and hand detectors in general are not sensitive enough.

So finally I narrowed my choice down to 3 detectors:
- Garrett AT Gold
- Teknetics T2
- Teknetics G2 (which is a clone of Fisher Gold Bug Pro)

Please, help me making this final decision. Which one would be most sensitive - for detecting small sewing needles from a distance of at least 3.5 inches?

I have called sellers, but they just can't open the boxes and check it for me. So please, based on your experience, and knowledge - can you help me?

If any of you would like to help me even more - you could check, what is a distance from which your detector sees a small (about 1.3 inches) needle or a pin.

[del]

hello Klaus and welcome to the forum . Wow :shocked05:your asking a lot from those machines ... let me explain . I am assuming these are the typical very small stainless steel pins or needles , and being so small and of stainless steel are very difficult for vlf machines to sound out to . maybe is you ran the machine in all metal mode (non motion mode ) some of these could be pick up by the machine on a regular basis maybe running the coil "long wise" to the needle . A pulse induction machine set up right would have no problems at all finding tiny metal pieces of any type , i know i have found tiny stainless steel staples is in inches deep of sifted dirt tailings , they sounded loud and clear on my TDI SL .

It should be interesting to hear what some of our members say after air testing their machines with small needles.

Dan

[Klaus]

hello Klaus and welcome to the forum . Wow :shocked05:your asking a lot from those machines ... let me explain . I am assuming these are the typical very small stainless steel pins or needles , and being so small and of stainless steel are very difficult for vlf machines to sound out to . maybe is you ran the machine in all metal mode (non motion mode ) some of these could be pick up by the machine on a regular basis maybe running the coil "long wise" to the needle . A pulse induction machine set up right would have no problems at all finding tiny metal pieces of any type , i know i have found tiny stainless steel staples is in inches deep of sifted dirt tailings , they sounded loud and clear on my TDI SL .

It should be interesting to hear what some of our members say after air testing their machines with small needles.

Dan

Dan, thank you. Yes, I realize how difficult it may be to detect such small objects. And I had my ups and downs while searching for a proper device. But after much research, I had some signals, that G2 can actually see a small needle (and even a staple!) from about 6-7 inches, and T2 from about 7 inches. It sounds much too optimistic, but I would do with 3.5 inches, and 5 inches would be just perfect. There is no way I can tell, whether it is possible, unless someone tests it for me. I know that AT Gold (and the other 2) have true all metal mode, and in that mode they might be sensitive enough to detects small objects, especially G2 and AT Gold, which are dedicated for gold hunt. I would be so very happy if any if these devices worked.

[Digger_O'Dell]

Strange use for a detector, but I think there may be a couple options. First would be a good PI machine such as is used to find tiny flakes of gold at greater depths, but they are expensive. Another option on a budget might br a Minelabs x-terra 305. It's the low end of the series, but using the 18.75 Mhz HF coil it would likely do the job.
Using my 705 and that coil, I was picking up rusted half staples at 4 to 6 inches.

[Full Metal Digger]

I wonder if something like this would work? Super Scanner® V Hand-Held Metal Detector, PN 1165190, MSRP: $199.95 (U.S.). Originally designed for use at the Olympic Games in 1984, Garrett's Super Scanner is the most recognized hand-held metal detector in the world.

[Klaus]

Strange use for a detector, but I think there may be a couple options. First would be a good PI machine such as is used to find tiny flakes of gold at greater depths, but they are expensive. Another option on a budget might br a Minelabs x-terra 305. It's the low end of the series, but using the 18.75 Mhz HF coil it would likely do the job.
Using my 705 and that coil, I was picking up rusted half staples at 4 to 6 inches.

Thank you. PI is too expensive, you are right. But 705 is about the same price, as the detectors I mentioned in my post. Do you think, X-Terra would be better than those? G2 and AT Gold are supposed to be very sensitive to small subjects.

[Klaus]

I wonder if something like this would work? Super Scanner® V Hand-Held Metal Detector, PN 1165190, MSRP: $199.95 (U.S.). Originally designed for use at the Olympic Games in 1984, Garrett's Super Scanner is the most recognized hand-held metal detector in the world.

Yes, it would be perfectly ergonomic in use, and for a good price. Unfortunately, it is not sensitive enough. I have read research on it, and asked for some tests. It is a great security machine, but a bit too shallow for my needs.

[OxShoeDrew]

Klaus, I just tried it with a common pin. My T2 was set at sens 90, all-metal mode. You can hear it at 6in, with a perfect coin sound at 1in. I did it in my kitchen which gave some chatter. I would not trust me hearing it (above the chatter) at more than 3in. I also tried it in disc mode, sens90, disc10(this is just canceling iron on the T2), 2+tones) and couldn't hear a thing.

[Klaus]

Klaus, I just tried it with a common pin. My T2 was set at sens 90, all-metal mode. You can hear it at 6in, with a perfect coin sound at 1in. I did it in my kitchen which gave some chatter. I would not trust me hearing it (above the chatter) at more than 3in. I also tried it in disc mode, sens90, disc10(this is just canceling iron on the T2), 2+tones) and couldn't hear a thing.
OxShoeDrew, thank you. As I understand, you got a reliable, repeatable detection at 3 inches. That would be almost fine. I would actually need 3.5, and it would be very good. Could you, please give me the needle's length, please? With such small objects, sometimes a small difference in measurement makes a great difference in detections - that's why I am asking for it.

[del]

Drew , also if you can detect length-wise and across the width-wise the needle to see if there is much difference.

[Klaus]

Also, I have a 2 questions that bother me.
1. Do I need to go for higher frequencies (around 70-90 kHz) to have more sensitivity on small objects? I know, that some specialized in gold hunt units have really high freq (as Gold Bug 2 - 71 kHz), but others have much lower freq (AT Gold - 18 kHz). And both have very good reviews on sensitivity in detecting gold nuggets. Is there a simple correlation: more frequency = more sensitivity on small subjects? I must remember, that I do not only need to detect a needle, but also need to detect it from a certain distance. Is there any advice for me concerning the freq?
2. How it is, that certain units have true all metal mode and some don't (as far as I understand - they just have zero disc mode). So the true all metal mode should give me a raw input, and it should be better for my needs. Still I do not understand, why some units lack this true all metal mode - is this option hard to obtain by a manufacturer? And how do I tell, if a detector has it or not? As far as I can see, only AT Gold has it clearly stated in specification sheet.

[OxShoeDrew]

It was a 1.5 inch common pin, Kraus. Dan, I tried both ways, check out the vid. I think things would have gone better outside of my house....you're going to have to determine how quiet a detector would run in your building Kraus.
Video of this important experiment :lol:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E1YQJ_xfAw

[Klaus]

It was a 1.5 inch common pin, Kraus. Dan, I tried both ways, check out the vid. I think things would have gone better outside of my house....you're going to have to determine how quiet a detector would run in your building Kraus.
Video of this important experiment :lol:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E1YQJ_xfAw

Amazing! Thank you for the video. I watched like a 10 times, paying a lot attention to it, more than to any other movie I have watched over past years. I understand the ruler had inches (not cm). If so - it gave perfectly clear sound from 5 inches (I saw it go even to 8). And this is really very satisfying. One thing - your needle is probably a little bigger than those I usually use (mine are exactly 1.3 inches long, and accordingly thin - about 0.02).
I consider this experiment groundbreaking :-). Even the cat could not believe what you were doing with that needle.

[OxShoeDrew]

:lol: My needle was exactly 1.5 in long....and I have no idea how thick.

[Klaus]

Hi guys, I just learned, that G2 does not have true all metal mode (to my shock). I am actually confused, because, it is not a easy information to find (whether a device has or does not have this mode). I don't know, what is better - to buy a device with lower frequency (like 13 kHz) but true all metal mode or a device without true all meta mode, but higher frequency (like 19 kHz). I am asking, because both of these properties (high frequency and true all metal) are supposed to make a detector more sensitive toward small targets. And besides AT Gold (which does not suit me, because the test results people send me are not good), it is not easy to find a device, that has two of these properties.