im not a happy nerd

ok so this is how it is.
i made a post a few weeks ago about my friend larry being pulled up by the superintendent for parks and rec in wethersfield and told he cant metal detect on town property and after asking you lot and looking at town and state rules we could find nothing to stop us detecting in the town .
anyway,ive just been pulled up by the same women (kathie bagly) and told the same thing.
i brought it to her attention that there was nothing in the town or state rules that says we cant metal detect on the land,her answer to me was i am not about to let you dig holes in MY parks !!!.
she also said that there does not have to be any rules wrote down state/town or otherwize in order to stop me detecting, these are bloody parks for pities sakes.
i told her we pick a lot of cans,pulls,and rubbish out of the ground and throw it in our own rubbish bins when we get home so we are acturly doing good work to......it fell on deff ears.
on my way back home i spoke to a policeman who is directing traffic on my street and he informed me that i cannot get fined in anyway for detecting becouse there is no rule about detecting.
so where does this leave me and larry ? do we call her bluff and keep detecting ?
as i say we and others on this site have looked into this extensivly and can find nothing in any rules.
there is no ordenance on the parks,no sighns saying we cant.
im an englishman living in the usa and i know rules here are differant but can someone please put this to bed for me one way or another....pleaseeeeeee.
hoping one of you fine nerds can help us with this coz im running into brick walls.

thanks
lee

If the parks there don't have hours that are off limits, the parks here are sunrise to sunset, but if they don't and its an old park with some old coins then I would be hitting it an night when she's not around. If its not an old park it wouldn't be worth the effort to me anyway, then I would just be checking for another park in the next town as some of the smaller towns thats close by might have been overlooked more and have more good finds to offer.

lee come to the club meeting tonight and bring this matter up to the members i'm sure it will strike a cord with the club officials and they can get to the bottom of this . this sounds like an abuse of power by this lady who might need a reminder that these aren't just her parks through a letter to her or to her superviser.

Dan

Hi lee,

So from looking at the website it seems that this person is the Director of parks, so she is the highest ranking person in the parks and recreation department for that town.

What is really strange is that nowhere on the website are there any park rules. Almost always in a bigger area like this one, where there is a good website describing the parks, the rules are posted on the website. I mean, it seems like there have to be rules somewhere (No alcoholic beverages.... dogs must be on a leash... no bonfires... etc, otherwise how do they enforce these things?). It would be helpful to know if there really are no rules, or if there are actually rules somewhere which either do or don't include statements about MDing or digging.

But, assuming no such rules exist, I would be careful about how hard you push. Something similar to this happened in Iowa with state parks a few years back. Some individual pushed a bit too hard because he thought it was restrictive that he could only MD during certain times and in certain places in the state parks, and the end effect was that the state just decided they didn't want to deal with it at all and incorporated a rule to disallow metal detecting in state parks entirely. (Not that you would do this; it's just an example of what could happen if she gets annoyed and has the authority to make such a rule and put it on the books).

If you have verified that no such rule exists against MDing and if you have spoken with a police officer who said that you aren't doing anything against the law, then she cannot make up rules that suit her just on a whim. But, if you choose to continue to go there, I would do it during times that you are not likely to encounter this woman again, and as unobtrusively as possible (early mornings on a weekend, or late in the evening) and I would choose areas that are not visible. Just my two cents. :)

Lee, I’m so sorry to hear about your encounter with Ms. Bagley. I know you probably feel the same way I felt when I got stopped by her a few weeks ago. It’s very frustrating I know.
At least it was good to get the police to confirm that there are no town ordinances prohibiting metal detecting. Unfortunately it sounds like Ms. Bagley will not let this issue rest. Perhaps the best course of action will be to follow Wingmaster’s advice and keep a low profile for a time. There are other places to hunt in the area that are not in her jurisdiction. No sense in stirring the pot to much as it may make matters worse.
It’s too bad there are folks like this that let power go to their heads. It’s not HER park, it’s OUR park. She can’t make up rules on the fly. Either there’s an ordnance against metal detecting or there isn’t. Unfortunately as the old saying goes, it’s tough to fight city hall.

Here is a link to the Unlawful acts in Wethersfield Parks

http://ecode360.com/8022676#8022676

me and larry will be both coming to the meeting tonight del and i will be bringing the subject up.
del,would i be right in saying that the bloke chatting at the last meeting is somthing to do with the state ?,i cant remember his name but he seemed very knolagable on rules and the such like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lee link=topic=7386.msg85242#msg85242 date=1318354318

me and larry will be both coming to the meeting tonight del and i will be bringing the subject up.
del,would i be right in saying that the bloke chatting at the last meeting is somthing to do with the state ?,i cant remember his name but he seemed very knolagable on rules and the such like.

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Lee ,
that would be Chuck A. he's currently the club president and a pretty knowledgeable guy , i think he works for the state or town in one aspect or another . yeah when they ask for any new business at the meeting you should bring the subject up and i'm sure there will be a discussion about it . looking toward seeing you and meeting Larry tonight.

Dan

And I still get chistised on a couple of sites for being slow to go public with the metal detector detector. In this particular case, I think you are hosed. As the lady is head of the department, a cop can't override what she dictates. Honestly though, and I think it will get worse and worse, hunting with detectors is going to be heavily scrutinized on anything besides private lands. Two reasons,,,more goof-offs with WallyWorld MD-s and a shovel, looking for treasure, AND the apparent ongoing idea that we are all bums looking for enough change for a happy meal. As totally innocent as we all really are...those public opinions will be crushing to the hobby as time goes on.

You really can't blame a city official if you really think about it. The harder times get with this economy, the more nuts with detectors and shovels will appear. It would beat pan handling, and no brag, just fact...I give to some of those people when they ask for change after giving a story. I pray to God I don't end up there myself, so paying it forward seems smart, plus it just feels right. I'll detect public for a Big Mac before I panhandle, assuming I still own a machine.

Back to the OP's situation, that hole digging comment she made maybe should stand up, because not all detectorists care in the least about holes, nor the junk. Way too many jokers with cheap detectors and shovels out there. Even my brother, who's detected for 15 years more than me(beach hunting mostly), leaves the junk besides a hole instead of taking it away. I am trying to press him to do different, but this guy is like a workaholic, and I'm sure collecting the trash and filling a hole is cutting into his other duties. He is wrong of course.

To me, it just takes all the fun out of detecting to have to keep an eye open over my shoulder for the metal detecting dog catcher. Private is all I do these days, and it is slim pickins, really slim.

Martin

This is a sticky situation. Just recently, I started working the grassy areas of my local parks. At first I felt uneasy extracting my targets, but the more I do it the safer I feel. I have talked to park workers, and the police have driven by, but no one has told me to stop. I have researched park rules and laws in my area, and have found nothing pohibiting me from detecting. The only exceptions are Wisconsin State Parks (with permit only), and National Parks.

Some times we have to stand up for our rights. I am also tired of being punished for someone elses damage. If you think the park is worth hunting, and you see no rules against it, then hunt. If Kathie Bagly tells you to stop, I would politely ask what rule I was breaking. If she says she doesn`t want you digging, tell her you follow laws and rules, not wishes. The club might be some help, power in numbers. You could go to a town hall meeting and express your concerns that this lady is harassing you. This lady is a bureaurcrat, not an elected official. She works for you, not the other way around. I do not think you will be able to hide from her, nor do I think you should. It is hard confronting people, but if you don`t they will walk all over you. If you don`t damage anything, and leave the area cleaner than when you got there, who can complain.

Yes the police can override her say so about the park. I would definitely go back with the intention of calling the police and report being harassed. Whether she likes it or not, she IS harassing you guys. The police will call it in and someone at the station will do a search for the law. You pretty much know they will find nothing. You will then still have the right to file charges of being harassed, which you won't, because you are a nice guy. But most likely the park lady will become irate, the police will tell her to calm down, and any type of hilarity could ensue. Having to do something like that would put knots in my stomach, but needs to be done. Bring your least expensive equipment just in case there actually is some kind of law, or the police side with her just because. Would probably be best to do as others have done and call the police in advance and let them know when and where you will be detecting. This will also ease your mind about the legality, and the only person getting surprised will be park lady. Sounds like a great place to have a club hunt real soon!

There shall be a Department of Parks and Recreation, consisting of a Director of Parks and Recreation, and such other employees as the Council may determine. The Department of Parks and Recreation shall have charge of all parks, park and recreation properties and of all recreation activities of the town, except such as may be undertaken by the Board of Education, provided that the ordinary care and maintenance of park grounds and buildings shall be furnished by the Department of Public Works, as provided in Section 603. The Director of Parks and Recreation, with the approval of the Parks and Recreation Board (see Section 510), shall make rules for the use of parks, public grounds and recreation facilities consistent with the ordinances of the town and the statutes of the state, which shall have the force of law. It shall be the duty of the Division of Police to enforce these rules.



The Director of Parks and Recreation, with the approval of the Parks and Recreation Board (see Section 510), shall make rules for the use of parks, public grounds and recreation facilities consistent with the ordinances of the town and the statutes of the state, which shall have the force of law. It shall be the duty of the Division of Police to enforce these rules.

Maybe you need to talk to the board! Looks like there is no rule on the books and she can't make it so without board involvement.
If she is just telling you that you can't without even knowing how you detect i think you have every right to go over her head.
If that doesn't work see what it will take to have her removed from her position! :beatdown:

I wouldn't go back in there myself...I'd send a stunt-detector at best with a Bounty Hunter. Also, possibly consider that you will win one arguement this time, and then Joe Blow Detector hits a historic site close to downtown on the heels of that event, digs holes with a spade, and leaves it in a terrible mess. Your lady in this mix will go I told you so to the city council, and all detecting will soon be punishable by confiscation. Is your time and aggrivation really worth it all? Not to me. Sometimes you just lose gracefully. martin

Yeah, maybe he's right! You should just give up and probably sell your detector.
Maybe you could take up stamp collecting or some other fun hobby.
Why fight for your rights to enjoy your hobby at parks that you pay taxes to support. Just because you are going to be responsible in the way you detect.
And soon it'll be just private land and Martin's yard! crying01