an updated new V3i is out :huh:

[Carl]

I could do with out the babies instructions and multi languages. If it's sold in America, learn the language and for God's sake, read your manual.

I think most people will find the on-line help system to be quite nice. The languages are for folks in foreign countries.

[Carl]

I have a 6x10 DD coil that I loved, sitting on a shelf. I used it 6 or 7 times in the woods and it just plain died. I payed a lot for that coil and now it's unrepairable.

Forgot to address this... why don't you just ask for a replacement coil?

[magic]

I dont want to make anyone mad, especially my friends on here.
But in my opinion, I think Whites is being fair and trying to do what is best for the customer and their business. Was they timing of the release bad? Maybe. Is it fair to charge for this upgrade? I would say yes because the alternative would be to buy a new detector. I know for me personally, Whites has given me free stuff and not charged me before when they should have or has taken their time to give me advice over the phone.
I dont know of any other company to do this. Remember, this is just my take on this, please respect it as I respect your opinions.
I for one will be getting the upgrade when the season is over. Right now my V3 is doing great without it and Its just a cherry on an already GREAT machine!
Hey Carl, I will be glad to be a tester for you anytime!

[coinnut]

Forgot to address this... why don't you just ask for a replacement coil?

It's past it's warranty period. I only used the coil from time to time and then tried another coil. I guess my point was that White's has always been a solid company with indestructable products. That Coinmaster V Supreme lived forever lol It's only been lately that the quality has slipped. Maybe it's because some parts are not made in house? Either way it was past the warranty, so I just shelved the coil. Really didn't want to go through the process of asking for another one.

[coinnut]

I dont want to make anyone mad, especially my friends on here.

Remember, this is just my take on this, please respect it as I respect your opinions.

Hey Magic, This is why we have a forum. I know that it sounds like we are nailing White's here, but it is our dissapointments that are showing through. White's has always been a great company, but some people feel slighted. Your opinions are always welcomed here, as this is how we and manufactures learn. They give us their side and we give them ours. Everyone should post what they feel. Criticism is acceptable, as is praise. Outright nasty, no content bashing is not. So everyone feel free to chime in on this and any issue.

[jer4004]

I have to pay for my V3i update and I will gladly do so. If whites would of announced the release of the V3se or the V3 pro like other companies did so soon after the release of the V3 with no upgrade option I would no longer be a whites customer. Can't wait to get my update.

Thanks for the V3i upgrade Carl

Jeremy a happy whites customer.

[Fishnmaine]

The dongle and it's capabilities was all customer speculation. The factory NEVER said this was going to be a future upgrade. Yes, Carl at the factory had been working on it but there were some issues that came up that hindered this project. People get a hold of a small piece of information that isn't completely accurate, yet they run with it and before you know it the forum has blown up with speculation after speculation. Then when it doesn't happen, even though it was never set in stone, people get upset.

Just like the announcement of the V3 last year. It was announced almost a month and half early because some people just couldn't keep quiet - so they released it - and the owners manual wasn't even complete yet - and looked what happened - so many people were upset the owners manual wasn't complete.

There seems to be this &quotragging and Me first mentality where people just have to be the first one to tell everyone. Just like this upgrade - it was an advance announcement that was for the dealers - not the public. And I guess they just feel they have to be the first to announce it - even before the factory has a chance to.

Now, I don't know if the dongle has been completely removed from the drawing board but you have to remember this is a unit with an upgradable platform. - And I guarantee some will take this statement as fact that there will be a dongle in the future and run with it. With the possibilities of this unit, you just never know.

[RickO]

At some point, I will likely upgrade. I really like White's products and their customer service is first class. I would say, IMHO, it is just bad timing.... since the V3 was just released last year, and many of us purchased one soon after, to see a significant upgrade released in less than a year from purchase is upsetting. If this were two years down the road, perhaps it would not have upset people. Anyway, I will stick with White's for my MD's and gear. RickO

[ramases]

At some point, I will likely upgrade. I really like White's products and their customer service is first class. I would say, IMHO, it is just bad timing.... since the V3 was just released last year, and many of us purchased one soon after, to see a significant upgrade released in less than a year from purchase is upsetting. If this were two years down the road, perhaps it would not have upset people. Anyway, I will stick with White's for my MD's and gear. RickO

To be honest - this has been the crux of my beef too. Two years down the line I wouldn't have given the price of the upgrade a second thought, but it is just nine months in my case !!! Having given it some thought and talking to the UK factory about it, I have changed my mind and I do now hope that Whites continue to develop the V3(i) and that upgrades are made available like this one has been - just not too often!!!! thumbsup01

[CyberSage]

The dongle and it's capabilities was all customer speculation. The factory NEVER said this was going to be a future upgrade. that there will be a dongle in the future and run with it. With the possibilities of this unit, you just never know.

Yes, I was told it would be an upgrade. I was told directly by a Whites Engineer. The statement was made that there were dongles being tested in the field and Software for the PC being written. That's just a little more than speculation wouldn't you say? The Dongles exist and were intended for use with the V3, I am guessing they they just don't work well. This last part is in fact speculation on my part.

[Dave]

No, I'm the right Carl... yes, I'm on the road and my response time is limited.

On the D2 (and other V-rated loops as well) we essentially have epoxy issues. One of the purposes of my current travels is to look at new equipment to fix this problem.

- Carl

Is this an issue of sepration at the seams allowing water and debris to get inside?
What coils would you recommend?

[xzlr8n]

All I want from Whites is a machine that has no guessing to its performance. Right now, I don't feel that everytime I turn on my V3 that I'm getting maximum performance. There is that pestering question in my head - should I dig it all with my V3 and have the same luck as I would of have had with a cheaper machine. I'm always wondering what the splatterings are, what all the false signals are, jumpy VDI readings, pinpoint and motion mode not jiving, iffy targets being iffy or phantom, is RX gain too high/low??, is Disc Sens too high/low?? Sometimes the machine runs too quiet, no signals which bothers me a bit. The one true downside I have with the V3 is I'm wondering if I'm being bombarded with too much misc info on the ground and poor targets, is there a good target mixed in there?? This is especially true with the D2 coil which has me scratching my head often?? Till I get a better feel for this machine and its ability to find deep elusive and questionable good signals I will always be wondering if I should have just stuck with my DFX (sold to buy V3) or MXT (which I still own), as I have yet to find one keeper deeper than 6 inches with the V3. All this being said, I have found some great stuff with my V3 and I'm generally happy with it (rememeber you still have to get the coil over a good target to find it!!). Yet, when you pay a big buck for a machine you want to feel pretty certain you've left no good target behind you, lets say up to at least 12 that is rofl rofl. At $1600 that's not too much to ask for is it?? On a positive note, I have found the V3 to give solid signals for solid good targets, no if's, and's, or but's about it (VDI #'s might be off from what I might have suspected for the target but still it was a good target), should I ignore everything else without question ?? How again does Angel find all that silver in and amongst the trash - he doesn't use a V3...

If reports come out the upgrades smooth out and improve the performance of the V3, I'll be the first to ship come fall. I also hope Carl and company can figure out the epoxy problem with the coils and that White's deals with defective coils appropriately!!! The coils just might be the only big problem with the V3's and their erratic behavior.

[Epi-hunter]

It was announced almost a month and half early because some people just couldn't keep quiet - so they released it -

Sorry... but I think you are implying that White's only released the user's manual early because of public demand. A big business like White's will know better than to release an inaccurate user's manual. Even if some people just couldn't keep quiet. The company made the decision, and be sure that they know what they are doing. One way or another.

[Epi-hunter]

Is it fair to charge for this upgrade? I would say yes because the alternative would be to buy a new detector.

Not true, IMO. We are talking about a software upgrade, correct? Not a model upgrade (e.g. hardware) that would require a new detector.

[BHNugget]

How again does Angel find all that silver in and amongst the trash - he doesn't use a V3...

I dont think Angel detects at all.I think he invented a silver magnet and uses it instead of a coil to pull deep silver out of the ground. lol lol lol
Seriously,I think machine familiarazation and operator interpretation are the major factors of pulling good deep targets,no matter what detector is used.You'll never convince me that all the silver Angel digs gives clear cut signals.He's learned to interpret what his machine is telling him.

[CyberSage]

I have worked in the computer industry since 1984. Over all these years in dealing with revision based hardware and more so starting in the early 90's I have flashed BIOS and firmware on a regular basis IE, computers, CDROM drives, video cards etc., In recent years mobile technology such as smartphones, PDA's, and GPS units are updated multiple times a year. There has never been charges associated with these updates. The main difference that I see here is that the Vision/Spectra V3/Spectra V3i has no way for the end user or dealer to apply the updates. As a result of this the unit has to be sent in. Was this an oversight on the part of Whites or maybe marketing. Who knows. I would at this point probably like to see a whole new detector released by Whites with improved hardware and connectivity options such as USB or Wireless that actually functions well. Until then the updates should be included in the purchase price. Paying for rom revisions? Whats next? Do we pay an annual activation fee to keep the V3 running when the software times out? All kidding aside I would really like to see some good response from Whites on what exactly happened with the whole USB Dongle fiasco.

Jack

[xzlr8n]

Seriously,I think machine familiarazation and operator interpretation are the major factors of pulling good deep targets,no matter what detector is used.You'll never convince me that all the silver Angel digs gives clear cut signals.He's learned to interpret what his machine is telling him.

I whole heartedly agree that the V3 is giving us a signal for a good target amongst the trash, I'm just questioning the v3's quality of those signals. I freely admit I need more time and opportunity with the V3 in trashy areas that hold good targets to figure out how to pull them out of the ground consistantly. What is the best machine to que in on that particular whisper/hint of a good signal amongst trash or poor ground?? Obviously Angel has figured it out with the eTrac. Maybe the V3's ability to have multiple headphones tapped in at the same time would allow someone with the uncanny ability to decipher a good signal from amongst trash signals to setup some sort of school. In this way others could tap in on the experience and learn from a pro. Better yet, maybe Jack could come up with an app for the iPhone that we could use on the V3 2.0 that will allow anyone in the world to tap in on any V3 2.0 out there and tag along with an experienced MD'er while they hunt (video would be required of course).

I have worked in the computer industry since 1984. Over all these years in dealing with revision based hardware and more so starting in the early 90's I have flashed BIOS and firmware on a regular basis IE, computers, CDROM drives, video cards etc., In recent years mobile technology such as smartphones, PDA's, and GPS units are updated multiple times a year. There has never been charges associated with these updates. The main difference that I see here is that the Vision/Spectra V3/Spectra V3i has no way for the end user or dealer to apply the updates. As a result of this the unit has to be sent in. Was this an oversight on the part of Whites or maybe marketing. Who knows. I would at this point probably like to see a whole new detector released by Whites with improved hardware and connectivity options such as USB or Wireless that actually functions well. Until then the updates should be included in the purchase price. Paying for rom revisions? Whats next? Do we pay an annual activation fee to keep the V3 running when the software times out? All kidding aside I would really like to see some good response from Whites on what exactly happened with the whole USB Dongle fiasco.

Jack

Jack, would this USB dongle or wireless allow a V3 owner to hook up his/her machine to his/her computer or smart phone and then upgrade automatically from the White's website or licensed vendor?? This would be quick and easy wouldn't it!! Sounds too simple you could even do it in the field!!

[Carl]

Either way it was past the warranty, so I just shelved the coil. Really didn't want to go through the process of asking for another one.

If you were to return your out-of-warranty coil you might be surprised at what happens.

- Carl

[Carl]

Over all these years in dealing with revision based hardware and more so starting in the early 90's I have flashed BIOS and firmware on a regular basis IE, computers, CDROM drives, video cards etc., In recent years mobile technology such as smartphones, PDA's, and GPS units are updated multiple times a year. There has never been charges associated with these updates.

You are confusing where the software is located with what the software is doing. Ferinstance, the BIOS ROM in a PC contains a bootloader to get things running, plus initializes hardware to a known state. But it can't run the PC; it doesn't give you useful functionality. That's the job of e.g. Microsoft Windows, plus apps. It so happens that on a PC Windows and apps are stored on the hard drive. However, they could be stored in ROM (and are in some cases). Is Microsoft allowed to charge an upgrade fee for Windows XP, but not for Windows CE? The V3i upgrade is not just an upgrade of a ROM bootloader, it is an upgrade of the entire functional software. Where the software is held (ROM or hard drive) is irrelevant.

- Carl

[del]

wow i didn't mean to cause so much controversy in the thread i started i just thought it was interesting and news
worthy to post . the only problem i have with the this whole thing is this . i was planning on getting a vision or v3
, now v3i at one time but i have waited because early ones had a few issues wether from it was released too early or
not , then a new name change and issues with coils . now its another name change with 1 feature taken away and a
few more added and who knows what issues this might bring. seems like every 6 months or so some thing goes on
with this machine and now i'm pretty sure i
don't want to invest my hard earned money in it for fear of other problems or so called upgrade or even another new
name .

Dan