Comparing PI machines

[Digger_O'Dell]

I would like to get some insight from anyone who may have used or has knowledge about PI machines. I have been considering one for a couple reasons. The first is to use on fresh water beach hunts to get past the black sand send hit the really deep targets, or to get the small gold. Depth seems to be the biggest factor.
Second purpose would be for inland coin and relic hunting at specific sites under certain conditions. Places like old sites with fill, or places that are pretty clean where anything else is out of range of the CTX even with the 17 inch coil on the best day. I would guess max depth with the CTX on a dime typically at about 12 to 15 inches if really lucky.
I would really love a waterproof machine, but only dive machines are available and what I gather is they aren't very deep. I have been looking mostly at 2 machines. The Minelab GPX 4500 and the Whites TDI. The 4500 has recently just been brought back on the market by Minelab with some improvements, and about half the cost of the GPX 5000.
One thing I can't seem to find any info on is depth testing on these machines with coins, rings, etc in good dry ground or sand. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks@

[del]

Chris , pulse machines take some patience to get use to because they don't discriminate , they sound off on all types of metals .... very similar to running a machine in all metal mode without any different tones .

If you have pretty clean beaches (not a lot of iron or metal trash) then a true pulse machine might be great to use there . However if the beach has the iron bits or very trashy , listening to a pulse go off so much can be very frustration. I know a few water hunters and they use one type of machine in the trash (an excaliber which is not a true pulse machine more of a water proof etrac because its better at selecting targets in the trash) , then they may use a Whites surfmaster on the clean beaches and water to get the depth .

I have and used a whites TDI sl on wet beaches in New Hampshire and Ct . , some beaches are littered with iron bits from broken lobster traps and such . the larger pieces i can tell its iron but the tiny ones can sound just like the non ferrous targets so it can get old real quick digging iron all day . On the relatively clean beaches that machine can hit a nickle or gold ring at 20 inches or more. I've also use this pulse machine on land and again in the open woods where metal trash is limited its preforms well . I also used it around a iron infested cellar hole and it was so noisy that gave me a headache , and was extremely difficult to single out a worthy target . Remember these machine don't have a pin point trigger .

Dan

[Digger_O'Dell]

Thanks for the info Dan! I've been studying the YouTube how to videos, turning guides, and watching live hunts so think I have a pretty good grasp on their operation. The Excalibur actually is just a waterproof FBS vlf machine.
As for beach hunting, most places I go have been hunted to death, and get pounded multiple times daily. The only edge is to have a machine that gets the stuff nobody else can detect, hence the PI idea. There really is little trash in the most used areas of the beach as it gets cleaned out daily. The only other way is to get lucky maybe by going at the right time and getting to a cut first and hopefully have something there. That's how I got my one and only.
As for iron I saw how the machines can actually discriminate some or all of the iron out just at the expense of some depth.

[del]

Thanks for the info Dan! I've been studying the YouTube how to videos, turning guides, and watching live hunts so think I have a pretty good grasp on their operation. The Excalibur actually is just a waterproof FBS vlf machine.
As for beach hunting, most places I go have been hunted to death, and get pounded multiple times daily. The only edge is to have a machine that gets the stuff nobody else can detect, hence the PI idea. There really is little trash in the most used areas of the beach as it gets cleaned out daily. The only other way is to get lucky maybe by going at the right time and getting to a cut first and hopefully have something there. That's how I got my one and only.
As for iron I saw how the machines can actually discriminate some or all of the iron out just at the expense of some depth.

Some machines can alter the sound of some of the iron like you said with some sacrifices but if you want the machine for its depth you'll likely be digging it . get a waterproof machine as you'll have better luck in the water than on the wet sands , there are certainly a few members here who do very very well in the water . I hope they will chime in with better advice than i to help you .

Dan

[Digger_O'Dell]

My water hunting I do with the CTX and it does great! It's the beach areas that need the depth. I've already gotten silver rings at 18 inches there with the CTX, but I've missed small gold at 2 inches go figure.
Some of the inland sites I hunt are pretty clean, but have maybe 1 to 2 foot of fill over areas that date back to the early 1800s so I'm pretty sure there is old stuff there that I just can't reach. One example is where I dug my 1841 LC. It was at the edge of a filled in field in a low spot, yet was still 16 inches down. If I move over a few feet, I have another foot of fill over the old land. Can a PI reach 2 to 3 feet for a largie? I'm pretty sure the GPX 4500 will, plus small gold coins should be easy.

[Fire Fighter 43]

I've been looking at PI machines for about a year now, watching videos and reading the forums. I did not look too closely at the Minelab because of the price. I narrowed my choice down to the TDI or ATX. Now that Minelab is offering the 4500 I might have to look at it also. I like the TDI more because of the price and after market coils that are available. They are also readily available for a great price used. If you get the TDI the DIV hunters all recommend getting the regular TDI as first choice, second the XL but do not get the Pro version, for some reason the Reular and XL perform better in the hot ground. When I decide to get one I'm leaning more twords the ATX. I like that it is water proof and compact for storage. Garrett is coming out with a new solid coil for the ATX. This coil is suppose to offer more stability, more depth and it is lighter than the coils that are available now. The reason I would like a PI machine is more for use in the hot ground of Virginia. I would like to start participating in the DIV hunt that is in the spring and fall each year. I do have a couple spots hear that also have very hot ground and I would be interested to see if there is anything to be found in these spots. I also would use it in certain water hunt situations. Good luck Chris and I would be interested in what choice you make.

[del]

Realistically I don't think the GPX 5000 can hit a large cent at 2 1/2 feet on land , maybe in the wet sand or very wet ground . A bigger target yes probably but tiny gold it should be much more sensitive to than the ctx especially in heavy minerals . I had a demonstration for the gpx 5000 by a Minelab field rep and it was an education , he struggled with trying to tune it for our soil conditions . Twenty minutes later he tells us that we have pretty bad ground (in this one area we were at it was but we knew that) , he was also having issues with interference with a submarine base a few miles away (their communication radios) . Needles to say I wasn't impressed but he asked if I was having any issues with my TDI SL and I told him no it rarely ever has any interference problems at all.

Chris I wish you all the best . please keep us informed or ask any questions .

[Digger_O'Dell]

Glad for the input Dan and Jeff! If I do get one it probably won't be until towards spring maybe. The woman wants a water capable machine too now, but she's not good at the hobby nor does she take the time to learn even how to work a machine. She basically expects to turn on the detector and then the gold bubbles out of the ground and lands in her pockets. So might get her a simple turn on and go machine first, like maybe a used Garrett AT pro

[Donnie B]

Hi everyone! I can provide my limited insight into the Minelab GPX series. I own a Minelab GPX 4800 and, honestly, there's not a great deal of difference between the 4500, 4800 and 5000. Just a few different timings for gold on the 5000, I believe.

I would not recommend any PI machine for hunting at the beach, or anywhere, for that matter if you could use a VLF. I only use mine once or twice per year if I go to DIV in Culpeper, VA. The ground is highly mineralized, blood red, and you must use a PI to find anything at depth. I have dug bullets at somewhere between 18" to 24" with this machine while using a 15" coil. I hate it, honestly. I hate using a PI machine. It's all sound. You can tell if it's big iron but if it's a sliver of a nail it sounds great.

I never use it anywhere else. I have a few hammered sites that I have thought about using it on to see what's down there that my VLF missed but, since my detecting time is limited, I always grab the VLF when I have time to hunt. I have found a lot of great targets with it and it does have two distinct sounds. Bullets are low tones and buttons are high tones. Slivers of nails are high tones and sound just like buttons.

The above being said, I have heard that the White's TDI-SL and older TDI's are brass magnets so if I had to do it all over I might try a TDI. Then again, I would probably still only use it only when I was in blood red ground or Australia looking for gold.

I am actually thinking about selling my GPX 4800 and forgoing DIV because I am hooked on digging colonial and I can use my VLF's.

[Donnie B]

I would like to add that with the stock 10" coil on a GPX the max depth on a bullet would be around 18 inches. I get a little deeper using the 15" x 12" DD coil but I only use it in soybean fields where I can, literally, push it around on the ground all day.

That's another thing, you want the DD coil because you get the different tones. Bullets are low tones and buttons are high tones. Big iron breaks up so you know it's iron. Slivers of nails sound great and you will dig millions of them. You definitely do not want a mono coil unless you are looking for one chunk of iron in a great big field.

[Digger_O'Dell]

Donnie, I agree with most you have said here. The beaches I hunt have lots of black sand or hot ground making the vlf mostly useless. As I said above, I have lots of clean fields and some sites with lots of loose fill that could be ideal for the PI.
One idea I had tonight is the shop I deal with locally rents machines, so maybe I can rent a PI machine and try it out before I decide to buy.