V3i, I never Have Seen More Than 6 Displayed

[CyberSage]

Well, I guess I will share my experience digging deep coins for you. I have dug many coins now in the 9 inch range, and a few that approach 10 inches. That being said, I should also mention that I have dug thousands in the 6 to 8 inch range. I have used the MXT,DFX, and V3 and gotten what I consider to be deep finds. Midas has given you the simplest answer there is. That answer is experience teaches best. We can accelerate the learning curve by taking advantage of the forums and books and hunting with a buddy who has experience. The later being one of the most advantageous in my opinion.
As mentioned previously the pin point volume will decrease faster than the discrimination mode audio responses. The coins that I have found in the 8 to 9 inch range have in many cases presented them self as only a light variation in tone in the pinpoint mode. At this point I would like to recommend that you get a good set of headphones. They do help significantly, and help you focus on the task at hand. On more than one occasion I have had to start the pin point procedure over several times to get a good response from a deep target. It is by no means always obvious. Pinpoint does get difficult for me after 7 to 8 inches sometimes, especially if I am dealing with EMI of any kind. It gets real light and wispy sounding. I have my volume set fairly high, but I am a little hard of hearing. The higher volume made a difference for me. Experience is going to be your best friend. Get out often in locations that give you a chance to find those old coins. If your getting used to that penny you buried at 7 inches, bury another one at 8 inches and experiment. Trust me on what I am about to say...

If you can get a good hit on a coin at 7 inches in motion mode and pin point it, you have the ability to find a hell of a lot of old coins that are still out there just waiting for you. Take what you have learned and find a few coins at depth. I had a huge break through myself this last spring. I hunted right next to a guy who pulled coin after coin. I watched him closely. He moved slow and deliberate, and one more thing, he also happened to be hunting where the coins were. Make sure you hunt where the coins are. I went back the next week and followed his path through the park. It was one of the best Silver days I ever had. Martin, with your steadfast determination and persistence I know you will be digging deep coins in no time. I will do my best to answer questions for you, but get out there and hunt with the new found knowledge you have acquired. Then make sure and share the results. Little steps my friend.

Jack

[MartinL]

Jack,

I really appreciate the patience you have with me when I get frustrated, thanks. Let me ask a few focused questions:

1. Are self-buried nickels, dimes and quarters not good test items, especially the quarter since it's bigger? My nickel in air tests always make my PPr(Pro Pointer) perform at it's best, 2+. Yet I have several nickels buried since last summer, at 4-6 and it's a struggle to get tone on them even though I know exactly where to swing. Did you chose the penny at random?

2. If the sensitivity bars(3 freq) are dancing nicely with slow and smooth swings in PP mode for say the 7 penny, after getting search tone, but get no audible tone in PP, doesn't it make sense that Whites screwed the pooch a little by not making the audible PP tone, in tandem and interactive with the display of the freq bars when they lock, rock and roll during the silence of the PP tone?
Seems logical that Whites should have.

3. What do you find is the depth limit for PP tone WITHOUT headphones? BTW, I have a set of Sunray Golds, and as memory serves me, I do not remember getting any better audio @ PP after the 6 depth audible tone wall I hit in open ear mode. I will re-visit the new Golds(they ain't hardly had the dust blown off them yet cuz of the summer temps) on these buried experiments I have now. That'll be my task first thing for today, plus burying the 8 penny.

4. Are you possibly switching to less than 3 frequencies for your deep performance experiences?

I keep seeming to come back to 5900, sorry. If my old 5900/Di shows a reading of 8-9 on the analog display, I dig 8-9 targets at that depth and have found coin targets at 8-9. Seems illogical that a ship model of the same company's can't exhibit that ability. I used my 5900 yesterday to quickly search the uncovered road bed, because I KNEW it was reliable. That thing must be 20-30 years old, and still rocks without all the bells and whistles. Had to do over again, I'd bought the MXT Pro instead of the V3i, but I'd feel guilty pawning this V3i off on anyone now, unless it was for a massive loss on my part. That has been what many new owners have done, both new THs and some seasoned TH as well.

I'll let you know how the day goes with the headphones. Thanks again! martin

[CyberSage]

Good questions Martin. Lets take them one at a time.

1. Are self-buried nickels, dimes and quarters not good test items, especially the quarter since it's bigger? My nickel in air tests always make my PPr(Pro Pointer) perform at it's best, 2+. Yet I have several nickels buried since last summer, at 4-6 and it's a struggle to get tone on them even though I know exactly where to swing. Did you chose the penny at random?

All are good items to do your testing. It depends on what you are hunting for. I chose a copper penny because it was similar to my most common old coin finds, which are Wheats and Silver Dimes. I believe these are probably the most common coins still out there, so I use it for my testing because the VDI response of a copper penny falls very close to that of the above old coins. I just can't bring myself to bury a Silver Dime. lol Your Pro Pointer responded better to the Nickel because it is a lower conductive target. The pro Pointer has an Operating Frequency of 12 kHz which favors lower conductive targets such as the Nickel.

2. If the sensitivity bars(3 freq) are dancing nicely with slow and smooth swings in PP mode for say the 7 penny, after getting search tone, but get no audible tone in PP, doesn't it make sense that Whites screwed the pooch a little by not making the audible PP tone, in tandem and interactive with the display of the freq bars when they lock, rock and roll during the silence of the PP tone?
Seems logical that Whites should have.

Hmmm? This may be your issue. In PP mode you should not be swinging in a slow smooth pattern. It is a non-motion mode. You should be finding a target free area near your dig and squeezing the trigger. Then move to the target area and adjust the position of the coil so the 3 bars on your screen are the longest possible. They should be fairly steady, not dancing up and down. As mentioned earlier, the variation in tone with VCO turned on with a deeper target is going to be quiet. I could not hear it with out the use of my headphones. You can turn up your all metal setting a little to help out. I have mine set at 75, which is pretty high.

3. What do you find is the depth limit for PP tone WITHOUT headphones?

BTW, I have a set of Sunray Golds, and as memory serves me, I do not remember getting any better audio @ PP after the 6 depth audible tone wall I hit in open ear mode. I will re-visit the new Golds(they ain't hardly had the dust blown off them yet cuz of the summer temps) on these buried experiments I have now. That'll be my task first thing for today, plus burying the 8 penny.

I have my volume turned way up for external speaker use. I always hunt with headphones, I use the Grey Ghost originals. In my test garden I often don't use headphones and can hear a coin in pinpoint at 8 inches or so. Remember I have my speaker volume turned way up though.

4. Are you possibly switching to less than 3 frequencies for your deep performance experiences?

[/quote]

I have hunted in Single frequency 2.5 modes in the paste and found some deep coins, but I am pretty stuck on the correlate mode for most of my hunting.


Well I have no knowledge on the 5900/Di. That's a little before my (metal detecting) time. lol I think Whites has produced a great detector. They have had there problems, but in the end I think they have truly landed a ship model with the V3/V3i.

Jack

[russellt]

use 2.5 single freq in m/m pro. turn up the recovery delay to 100.make sure tone ID is on .gain 13 ac.80 dc.70. use the 7.5 filter and you should get some deeper targets. a quarter at 8 -10 inches are not going to vdi at 83. it will be bouncy like kathryn hepburns head in a uh -60 under evasive manuevers. like vdi 78 to 72 something like that and the tone ID will sing everytime your coil passes over it . thats the key for me .i also changed my tones to be progerssively higher for higher vdi's. also create a high tone for 17 to 19 so you cant get those nickles. hope this helps bro..... russellT

[wagon wheel]

good lessions...I'm feasting on every word and I'm eager to give them a try. Much thanks!!!

w.w.

[M-Taliesin]

Howdy Folks!
Meanwhile, with all the angst for V3i owners and time spent trying to get along with a real sketchy machine with questionable performance, lots of time invested in playing with settings, I've been raking in the finds like crazy with my MXT Pro.

Sometimes more just ain't better at all, but simply time devoted to everything except the goal of finding the goodies.

My own V3i might become the subject of my next video at the pistol range.
Can't see how it could blow me away otherwise!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[RWJR13]

.....M-T....your never at a loss for words... thumbsup01 thumbsup01

[CyberSage]

Mel,
There was a time when I would have agreed with you on this. Up until this last Spring my deepest coin was found with the MXT. The ground tracking on the MXT is superior to that of the V3/V3i in my opinion. While they have added tones now to the Pro version of the MXT, it is still a single frequency detector. This is it's drawback when it comes to digging deeper coins. The MXT runs at 15 kHz, which is not the ideal frequency for deeper coins. It does handle EMI better though. Shallow targets are not at issue here. When it comes to deeper targets having the multi frequency pinpoint saves a lot of digging that you would be doing with the MXT. Trust me on this, I dug a lot of rusty tipped nails and rusty bottle caps with the MXT. Everything sounded the same to me. Most will agree with me in the statement that tone hunting goes hand in hand with finding deep coins. The higher range of audio tones on the V3/V3i accommodates this need nicely. The MXT Pro has tones as well, but not enough to get that nice rolling response that I listen for. The V3/V3i is a bear to program for most folks. The preset programs are still very conservative in terms of Filter settings. I preach on this a lot. I read a statement by Jimmy Sierra where he talked about the uncanny depth using the 5hz Filter. This is the key to getting deep. My soil is moderate to high strength as I approach the foothills of the rockies. The lower filter setting always gets me more depth and sensitivity. All of the pre-loaded programs with the exception of one have very high filter settings. This is a huge problem for beginning V3 users in my opinion. I can make a deep target in my coin garden disappear simply by adjusting the filter from 5hz to 7hz. With proper settings not only will you get deeper with the V3, but you increase your sensitivity to shallower coins that are mixed with trash targets. The MXT relies on separation alone to see these targets. The V3/V3i uses separation along with priority logic to find these targets in situations that would be masked out for most other detectors. I would say that most of the old coins I find now have something else in the hole with them. We really need to get together Mel. I want to get my hands on your V3i, and your MXT Pro as well! lol

Jack

[giant056]

I have to agree with you Jack my V3i definitely hears deeper targets than my MXT, the only way that I could truely tell would be to bring along my MXT and mark the target, go back to my truck (which might be half a mile away) and check it with my MXT, maybe some day. My brother has a stock Minelab SE and there's a ballfield where I was digging some super deep Indian's last summer, one day he told me if I ran across what I thought was a deep Indian to let him check it, well probably only 45 minutes into the hunt I got a good signal, he came over and checked it, he couldn't pinpoint it, he said he could tell there was something there but he said that he doubted if he'd ever heard it hunting normally, it was one of them deep Indian's and I let him hear and see the great response my V3i was giving plus here the constant good tone, you'll never convince me that a V3i won't go deep, I know better. Back when I was using my MXT we compared a lot and every time we both got good diggable readings. I never use my Super 12 anymore cause I do better with the D2 on both the MXT & V3i.

Mel when you did your factory reset is that when your V3i started screwing up really bad? I am kinda wondering if maybe the eeprom isn't screwed up in it from the last time I heard you talk about it. I'm sure they have an eeprom in them, but whether or not it's separate by itself or integrated into a microprocessor I don't know.

[rsarge1]

Martin hang in there Jack will get you straight, I was gonna ask you if the VCO was on but you already knew about that because it sounded like the problem I had when I got my machine back I have gotten quarters down 9 inches in my test garden but the only thing i've found down 9 inches in the field is crushed pop cans LOL like they say you have to be over it, keep trying it will come around.

[exsquid]

The V3i gets screwy when you change one parameter, such as the VCO or an audio threshold, and you can't get it back by simply returning the setting back to original. I have to do a formal restore of the file and start over. What kind of electronic device these days requires one change at a time, and then forces you to sweep clean to the original status? It makes it darn difficult to tweak and actually believe you have the concrete, top level performance from these V3is. Seriously, I was in success mode an hour ago. Tweaked one thing in audio and than it was worse, so a reverse of the setting would make you think you'd be back to the current success, right? Whites really needs to address the firmware, the hardware GUI so called live controls and how they act together on the fly. I am not impressed at all.

I'm taking a brake. martin

OK, I don't have a V3i and I don't know all of its lingo but I would swear that I read somewhere that the V3i had global paremeters that can be turned on for each setting (perhaps) so all new programs are linked to those settings and they are automatically inserted into the programs otherwise the settings are left alone so that each one needs tweaked each time. Things like volume and threashold can be set and not bothered with each time a new program is created.
Could this could explain why some things are reverting back to other settings maybe??

Just trying to help... I suspect White's has enough technical knowhow to design it smart...

[M-Taliesin]

Mel,
There was a time when I would have agreed with you on this. Up until this last Spring my deepest coin was found with the MXT. The ground tracking on the MXT is superior to that of the V3/V3i in my opinion.
<Snip>
We really need to get together Mel. I want to get my hands on your V3i, and your MXT Pro as well! lol

Jack

Howdy Jack!
I'd be up to visiting with you and checking out my V3i whenever you have some free time.
Since I just had surgery a couple of days ago, I am playing things close to home for the moment, but that shouldn't last very long. I'd surely appreciate your having a look.

I personally believe the master reset I did on the V3i hosed up the calibration to the point it has become useless. That's an issue I still chafe about considering it was highly touted by a forum moderator and dealer on another forum.

If we can spare me the trouble and expense of sending it back to White's, that would be helpful. But I don't have particularly high hopes that things will improve much without doing that. It is nothing short of noisy to an extreme at low gain (65) and with discrim also very low (2). All metal at 45. My last attempt was in Texas, and it was totally useless with only tons of falsing at that setting.

Hope we can hook up, as I am not working at present.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[giant056]

From what you're saying Mel it definitely sounds out of whack, it's very possible this master reset that moderator had posted(I remember it vividly) on the Website corrupted the eeprom or a processor. Seeing how it's out of warranty by now, myself personally I would take it apart and take all voltages out of it to start with and try it after that first. I've fixed many digital electronic components that had nothing but a confused processor in them. A lot of them processor's have a super capacitor near their voltage supply and if that processor is confuse (that's my own laymen description) it ain't gonna work or it ain't gonna work right. You have to take that voltage away completely. Super caps will hold a charge for a long long time. When eeproms get corrupted there's no fixing them without the right equipment but they're very cheap to buy(if you could get one). If Jack can't get nowhere with it I'd say ship it to Whites and they'll fix it.