CTX3030 / E-Trac Comparisons

[CyberSage]

I am really interested in seeing some comparisons of the CTX3030, and the E-Trac on the same targets. I have a few questions before I take the plunge and purchase the CTX unit.

1. I have been reading a lot of early reviews with reports that there is no depth advantage with the CTX3030. Given that there is currently no wider DD style coils available for the CTX3030, does this make the E-Trac a deeper running machine with an Ultimate 13 coil?

2. It is being reported that the Trace features are showing a lot of false positives in the penny area of the display. Is the Trace feature really going to be usable in the field, or is it a novelty feature that only works in a controlled environment?

3. Has anyone run both units over their coin garden? What was your impressions? (EMI, Depth, etc.)

I am eager to pull the trigger on this machine, but I really like my E-Trac at this point. Thanks for your input.

Jack

[rsarge1]

great post Jack I think I too am where you are, on the fence waiting to see LOL hopefully others will provide the information needed, so I am waiting to see myself only I am interrested on how it does compared to the v3i
or maybe whites will have an answer to the new machine in the neer future itself.
thanks
sarge

[DirtFisher]

My CTX should be here the 6th of June. The CTX does have a 17 DD coil available for it but I am doubting that it will go any deeper than the E-Trac with the 11 coil on both machines.

After watching and reading everything about the CTX, I'm left with the feeling that there is really only one thing that the CTX may do better than the E-Trac and that is TID. I get the feeling that Target Trace is really just an illustration of what the E-Trac does - TID of multiple targets under the coil. But I have hope that the CTX is more accurate with TID at greater depth. Time will tell.

[Spike]

I to want one bad but mainly for two reasons the target trace and mostly the GPS anyone know if will help you cover the whole site or if it is to get you to your site I hunt alot of fields and large areas and im sure there is places I have not covered think it good enough to do that or not time will tell I just hope that everyone is truthful with there results good or bad \ This site has alot of influance on people and what they buy or dont

[CyberSage]

My CTX should be here the 6th of June. The CTX does have a 17 DD coil available for it but I am doubting that it will go any deeper than the E-Trac with the 11 coil on both machines.

I think that 17 coil is 13 wide as well. So that would be the equivalent of the Ultimate 13 with a little more coverage area. Is Minelab shipping that coil yet? Theoretically it should be a deeper running coil given that it gets good penetration into the ground. I see about a 1.5 to 2 inch improvement with the Ultimate 13 coil compared to the stock in moderate strength soils. (6 year old coin garden test using Wheat Pennies)

[Fire Fighter 43]

I would love to answer all of your questions and spend a few hours doing test and video to compare the CTX to the Etrac but I just do not have the time to do it. Now that summer vacation has started for my kids my days detecting are numbered. I have a couple of camping trips with and a family vacation planned for the summer. Both of my kids are also playing several sports this summer, so it is going to be busy. This is also the start of my golf season so Ill be putting in some time with that as well. Any time I have to detect will be spent detecting and learning the CTX so that I can hit the ground running in the fall once the kids are back in school. After each hunt I will post my thought on what I have learned about the CTX but that will be about it from me.

[CyberSage]

Thanks Jeff! Sounds like you have a fun, and wonderful summer planned out. Family is always first. Good man!

Jack

[earthmansurfer]

Hey guys. Been patrolling the CTX forums as I prepare to buy a unit. I sent my Deus back in for a refund (we have 2 weeks here in Germany to return online purchases) and sold my E-Trac and coils - all to raise money for a CTX. No, I wasn't wanting the latest and greatest but the balance of the E-Trac took it's toll on me, I actually would have sold it regardless and eventually bought the new Fisher CZ due at years end, but then the CTX came out. I bought a used Jupiter for 300 and that is damn near as fast as the Deus, but depth tops out at 10 in the air. But really really fast, great site machine. Not a great silver machine, just doesn't hit it hard with the 16kHz freq.

Jack, regarding your questions - like I've said I've been reading a ton as well as speaking to a few guys using the unit.

1 - As noted the 17X13 coil is available, or near available. I do have a concern with no aftermarket coils being available - that chip in the coil is a kiss of death to the aftermarket manufacturers. A great aftermarket coil can make a lower priced FBS behave as good as an E-Trac I hear, though the speed won't be the same. I actually hear the 12X10 SEF separates better than the 13 Detech, but I never ran any tests there - hopefully one of them is eventually released for the CTX AND a light version! Regarding depth, I hear the same thing, not relative advantage BUT the CTX runs about 3 levels higher in auto. So, that can definitely get you more depth, especially if the border is around the 24 or 25 level - on the E-Trac that was a clear boost zone. I am curious to see if the manual GB helps those get more depth who have some iron mineralized ground (as I do, but it's not terrible, though deep coins usually bounce a lot on the VID).

2 - A mod (ironhearted_gog) on the MLO site did mention this and said you can weed those false positives out by how or where they jump from/to. Apologize as I don't remember his exact answer but it doesn't appear to be a concern. Running the ferrous coin setting, oddly enough, can cause a lot of false positives. How and why I don't know, but my guess is running it when one shouldn't. Still an area to keep an eye on. Luckily, oh so luckily, the CTX has the software upgrade feature. Not only can we look forward to new features, but to a fix if needed.

3 - There are a few videos from Tombs showing the CTX vs Deus and the CTX came out on top but I haven't seen any head to head videos on real world in ground (naturally) targets.

An online friend of mine has really turned his opinion around, as well as his friend, after hunting some of their hunted out spots. He tells me he got like 14 more silver in 4 or 5 hunts. He was shocked and the first few times he thought he might have missed a few, but it just kept happening and he started to see it was more than maybe missing.

Anyway, I think the CTX judging the early reports is unmasking a bit better than the E-Trac. It appears to have a better ID at depth and the sounds seem clearer, more enhanced. I noticed the cleaner sounds in some videos, it was apparent. Not as much warble there, which I loved, but perhaps the warble wasn't what we all thought ;-) Really looking foward to using the combined audio mode. Hopefully they offer an iron volume for it in the future.

Good hunting all,
Albert

[DirtFisher]

Hey guys. Been patrolling the CTX forums as I prepare to buy a unit. I sent my Deus back in for a refund (we have 2 weeks here in Germany to return online purchases) and sold my E-Trac and coils - all to raise money for a CTX. No, I wasn't wanting the latest and greatest but the balance of the E-Trac took it's toll on me, I actually would have sold it regardless and eventually bought the new Fisher CZ due at years end, but then the CTX came out. I bought a used Jupiter for 300 and that is damn near as fast as the Deus, but depth tops out at 10 in the air. But really really fast, great site machine. Not a great silver machine, just doesn't hit it hard with the 16kHz freq.

Jack, regarding your questions - like I've said I've been reading a ton as well as speaking to a few guys using the unit.

1 - As noted the 17X13 coil is available, or near available. I do have a concern with no aftermarket coils being available - that chip in the coil is a kiss of death to the aftermarket manufacturers. A great aftermarket coil can make a lower priced FBS behave as good as an E-Trac I hear, though the speed won't be the same. I actually hear the 12X10 SEF separates better than the 13 Detech, but I never ran any tests there - hopefully one of them is eventually released for the CTX AND a light version! Regarding depth, I hear the same thing, not relative advantage BUT the CTX runs about 3 levels higher in auto. So, that can definitely get you more depth, especially if the border is around the 24 or 25 level - on the E-Trac that was a clear boost zone. I am curious to see if the manual GB helps those get more depth who have some iron mineralized ground (as I do, but it's not terrible, though deep coins usually bounce a lot on the VID).

2 - A mod (ironhearted_gog) on the MLO site did mention this and said you can weed those false positives out by how or where they jump from/to. Apologize as I don't remember his exact answer but it doesn't appear to be a concern. Running the ferrous coin setting, oddly enough, can cause a lot of false positives. How and why I don't know, but my guess is running it when one shouldn't. Still an area to keep an eye on. Luckily, oh so luckily, the CTX has the software upgrade feature. Not only can we look forward to new features, but to a fix if needed.

3 - There are a few videos from Tombs showing the CTX vs Deus and the CTX came out on top but I haven't seen any head to head videos on real world in ground (naturally) targets.

An online friend of mine has really turned his opinion around, as well as his friend, after hunting some of their hunted out spots. He tells me he got like 14 more silver in 4 or 5 hunts. He was shocked and the first few times he thought he might have missed a few, but it just kept happening and he started to see it was more than maybe missing.

Anyway, I think the CTX judging the early reports is unmasking a bit better than the E-Trac. It appears to have a better ID at depth and the sounds seem clearer, more enhanced. I noticed the cleaner sounds in some videos, it was apparent. Not as much warble there, which I loved, but perhaps the warble wasn't what we all thought ;-) Really looking foward to using the combined audio mode. Hopefully they offer an iron volume for it in the future.

Good hunting all,
Albert

Lots and lots of time on my hands as I am nursing a newly replace right hip. I've read most every post and seen every YouTube video and I agree completely with EMS. My 3030 comes Wednesday but I won't be able to us it until July 1st - earliest. I guess I'll just have to do some air testing (which won't provide much info) and learn the menu system until I get better.

[CyberSage]

I stumbled across this video on another forum.

Some of the comments from the individual by the name of (DirtFishing) shooting the video ...

Used both detectors on the same target. A clad dime and a nail buried in the same hole. To me they performed about the same. The glare was bad on the 3030 screen.

I have done a lot of testing not on camera and I have not noticed any real advantage for the ctx over the Etrac. I have tested various targets in differenet scenarios and they perform almost identical. The ctx does seem to ID targets a bit better at depth but that is about the only difference I can see performance wise.

Etrac VS CTX3030

[earthmansurfer]

Hey Jack - The E-Trac is probably going to hit on 90% - 95% of the same targets the CTX hits on. The CTX will probably give an overall better signal and VID on some of the same targets, which is to be expected if it truly is 4 years newer technology but a good detectorist will wiggle those 95% out. It's the other 5% - 10% that technology might get us and probably a bit more if the detectorist is just average, due to the extras - if used properly.

That test in the video doesn't strike me as anything difficult. I would expect many detectors to hit on the coin going across the nail. Going with the nail, now that is a tough one. To make the test more challenging, he probably should have moved the coin progressively closer to the nail to see at what point which machine lost the signal first.

I liked how he tried the ferrous coin setting, which did seem to improve things. I do wonder though, how much better, if any, the CTX would hit that target if it was a real world iron near coin situation, and not planted.

It nice to have some tests starting to come in, but I get the feeling that the most accurate thing we can ask for is natural targets, in particular because FBS just works better that way and I wonder then, if the newer settings in the CTX menu might be a bit enhanced then.

And if an aftermarket HOT stock size coil comes out for the E-Trac, we just might see the playing field leveled between the two. My concern with the CTX is that kiss of death chip in the coil, making it difficult for aftermarket manufacturers to get a coil on it.

Here are some more planted targets and signals are compared on a CTX, E-Trac and Deus. http://www.youtube.com/user/ctx3030tv?feature=watch
Again, I don't give lots of credence to planted targets, but being that the CTX showed very well against the Deus, it's a good sign for real world targets (as the Deus excels with planted targets as they are a bit like hunting plowed fields, which the Deus is a regular at.)

Albert

[CyberSage]

Great information Albert! Thank you very much for your feedback, and insight. It is much appreciated. It's unfortunate that the custom chip limits 3rd party manufacturing. Unless Minelab shares the chip, then it is really a dead end. You still don't see any V-Rated coils being manufactured by anyone else than Whites for the V3/V3i. No chip in that coil, so I am not sure that it would really matter. Hard to tell at this point. I guess I don't really see that as an absolute negative for the CTX, but it would be nice to have options. I really like the Ultimate 13 coil on the E-Trac. It's just a wonderful coil. Like I said, It would be nice to have options.
I am hoping for a very good in-the-field comparison. If in fact the CTX offers a 5% to 10% advantage, it would be worth it to me. Thanks again Albert.

Jack

[Spike]

I know the test is showing an even STOCK setting but to me it dose not show much cause with thoses settings my AT pro would out do both of them in a iron infested field with a good setting.I think the only way to see the advantage if there is one with the 3030 is pushing both of them the way we or atleast I hunt with the E-trac (hot with mostly open screen) If you would take a V3 and hand it to someone that has a DFX would they realy be wowed until the pushed it to find its advantages Just my thoughts for what its worth lol

[Fire Fighter 43]

I believe we wil not see the true potential of the CTX until everyone using it has more time in the field. I know that Ive been setting it up as close as I could to the Etrac but I and everyone else needs to realize it is not an Etrac. It is new technology that needs to be explored.
One of the more recent things I've read is that you will get better results using the CTX in auto sensitivity. I'm not sure if this is true but it came from one of the testers whom a lot of people trust and respect. I'm sure with time there will be many more things that you should or should not do that we have done with the Etrac.
I'm not familiar with the Explorer but when the Etrac first came out did everyone set it up like the Explorer? My guess is they did not. They learned how to get results with the Etrac by using and experimenting.

[CyberSage]

I and everyone else needs to realize it is not an Etrac. It is new technology that needs to be explored.

This is something else that bothers me about Minelab. They say it's FBS2!, but what the heck does that mean? We don't really even understand how FBS works. Minelab is so secretive, they could say anything about the CTX, and not be challenged. The fact is we really don't know why, or even begin to understand how FBS/FBS2 works. So we speculate. Is it better, or just more flashy? Over the years differences between other brand detectors are spelled out. We can for the most part see the differences, but with minelab we just have the end result. I will admit that result is spectacular! After using the E-Trac for just 8 months I know the results are second to none. IMHO They flat out make the best detector for coin shooting on the market. I would just like to know a little more about how it works. How much is marketing spin, and how much is really new technology. At this point it has become painfully obvious to me that Minelab is in a league of it's own. My next detector will be a Minelab no doubt, but come on guys throw us loyal users a bone to chew on.

Jack

P.S. Give Ralph, and Detech some of those top secret chips so we can continue to enjoy their wonderful products.

[earthmansurfer]

There was this chart floating around that talked a little bit about the chip in the coil. Something about pre-processing data and then sending it to the main unit. I sort of thought that was a bit of FBS2 but I agree, it's not really clear. I do get the feeling that FBS technology has an aspect of time domain tech to it. There seems to be a lag when it came to recognizing targets on the E-Trac. I had read on Tom's site about how Minelab FBS machines need to wait for some kind of decay or the like to help to ID the targets. Might be partly why the VID is so accurate? So, perhaps the chip in the coil is somehow speeding uup this wait time by pre-processing the data?

Minelab is a bit too secretive for my blood. They really are like a typical corporation there. I guess being that they are huge, they act as such. They didn't patent all of their secrets as they probably didn't want to give people direction explaining exactly how the do things. I even avoided Minelabs for years because of all the hype. But after not really getting good depth with a variety of machines, I have to say the E-Trac is the best coin machine I've ever had. The Omega is also a great coin machine, a much better value, but not an E-Trac for sure.

What I am looking forward to, and other posters mention, is what comes out from more time in the field. Especially as it relates to the Target Trace feature. I really got a lot out of the E-Tracs 2D screen. Even though I'm a tone first and second hunter, when I would investigate deeper targets, the bouncy nature of the crosshairs in my soil spoke volumes. I think the target trace option is going to take that to another level, not to mention the ferrous coin and high mineralization setting as well.

Looking forward,
Albert

[markg]

Thanks for taking the time to locate this added information.

[midas]

P.S. Give Ralph, and Detech some of those top secret chips so we can continue to enjoy their wonderful products.

Minelab is a corporation that is focused on PROFIT - the bottom line. The reason behind the custom chips is to eliminate the competition in the aftermarket coil and pinpointer categories. They did the same for the XTerra line. Look how many accessory coils and pinpointers were sold for the ETrac where Minelab did not get a dime of profit. Now with the CTX your ONLY choice is a Minelab Coil at an inflated price. $399 for a Coil - outrageous!!!!! $18 for an XTerra coil cover - absurd!!!! (was only $6 before Minelab price increase last year).
Minelab could license the tech to accessory Mfgs. for a slice of the pie, but won't. They want it all.
Some computer printer Mfgs. have done the same thing (custom chips in an ink cart) where your only choice is to pay $35 for ink cart (other printers with no chip, generic ink costs $3).
I for one will not buy a CTX unless a Sunray is made for it and I have choices for other accessories. (Are you listening Minelab)

[earthmansurfer]

Minelab is a corporation that is focused on PROFIT - the bottom line. The reason behind the custom chips is to eliminate the competition in the aftermarket coil and pinpointer categories. They did the same for the XTerra line. Look how many accessory coils and pinpointers were sold for the ETrac where Minelab did not get a dime of profit. Now with the CTX your ONLY choice is a Minelab Coil at an inflated price. $399 for a Coil - outrageous!!!!! $18 for an XTerra coil cover - absurd!!!! (was only $6 before Minelab price increase last year).
Minelab could license the tech to accessory Mfgs. for a slice of the pie, but won't. They want it all.
Some computer printer Mfgs. have done the same thing (custom chips in an ink cart) where your only choice is to pay $35 for ink cart (other printers with no chip, generic ink costs $3).
I for one will not buy a CTX unless a Sunray is made for it and I have choices for other accessories. (Are you listening Minelab)

I don't doubt what you say. I get the feeling they are using the chip for more than monopolizing the coil market. They did say some pre-processing is going on in there.

Anyway, your concern is my concern. I'm telling you, if they don't license or allow aftermarket manufacturers to make coils, they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face. A good coil can DRASTICALLY improve a machine. The newer SEF coils are VERY GOOD in the separation department, as is the 13 Detech. Fisher is coming out with a new CZ later this year and if it is priced right and open to after market coils AND of course, does well in iron, maybe water resistant, fast, good VID system, etc. I can see that really really affecting future CTX sales. Fisher needs to release before Xmas for sure.

Albert

[randy]

Minelab is a corporation that is focused on PROFIT - the bottom line.

Aren't we all? Even metal detector dealers, and those of us who plod off to work every day or run our own businesses. We wouldn't do so if we were not gonna make money doing so, would we?

The reason behind the custom chips is to eliminate the competition in the aftermarket coil and pinpointer categories. They did the same for the XTerra line. Look how many accessory coils and pinpointers were sold for the ETrac where Minelab did not get a dime of profit. Now with the CTX your ONLY choice is a Minelab Coil at an inflated price. $399 for a Coil - outrageous!!!!! $18 for an XTerra coil cover - absurd!!!! (was only $6 before Minelab price increase last year).
Minelab could license the tech to accessory Mfgs. for a slice of the pie, but won't. They want it all.

Isn't there a rule around here against bashing MD manufacturers, or, like most things, has that changed on a whim as well or are exceptions applied for the well-connected? Well, my opinion is this -- if you don't like the machine, the price, or the manufacturer, don't buy it, but otherwise hold your peace. Its that simple. Whining about the price of the machine or the policies of the manufacturer doesn't seem all that constructive (but its everywhere, save one other forum, and now it is here). Too bad the mods tolerate it.

Some computer printer Mfgs. have done the same thing (custom chips in an ink cart) where your only choice is to pay $35 for ink cart (other printers with no chip, generic ink costs $3).
I for one will not buy a CTX unless a Sunray is made for it and I have choices for other accessories. (Are you listening Minelab)

Amazing. Printer companies responding to the same incentives to make money that Joe Businessman, Joe MD Dealer, Joe Forum Owner, Joe you and me, Joe Minelab Corp, are responding to. My guess is that Minelab is not listening, but, I would e-mail them, not post here. No question in my mind that they are not reading here. But, WDIK, I'm just a lame practicing economist who is clueless to the motivations of individuals and corporations, despite the fact than I am never disappointed that their actions continuously and consistently confirm modern economic theory. Too bad, really, but it is what it is.

And, to the handful of you who read this message before it was pulled: Farewell, farewell, I wish you the best |