Speechhless about what I found!

[Bucknut]

I took this last Friday off and headed up to my cottage Thursday evening and planned to detect all of Friday and most of Saturday and I am SO glad I did! Thursday evening I just detected my family's cottages and found a few pcs of trade silver and a couple of indian tinkling cones.

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Then on Friday I went to the Indian camp site by myself. I wondered all around the general area of the site and found more copper and more pottery.

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My mom got this permission earlier this summer and near this site is what appears to be a saw pit. It is located very close to the cottage of the people who gave us permission and earlier this summer I decided to stay away from this area and wonder deeper into the woods and I am glad I did because I stumbled on the camp site but on Friday afternoon I spent the last part of the day around the saw pit. It was amazing!

First I found two knife blades within a foot of each other. After some electrolysis you can see some interesting makers marks. One has 2 skeleton keys crossing each other and then a + sign (or cross?) and then another skeleton key. The other knife has what appears to me as a bug. That probably is not what it really is but to my eye it looks like that. I have not looked up these marks but I am guessing early 1800's or older. Both are about 9.5" long.

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Around the saw pit I started finding lots of amazing things and the first was a War of 1812 era Eagle on Cannon Corps coat button. I ended up finding 7 buttons around this spot and a few musket balls.

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I also found Native artifacts including the copper knife, a couple copper awls, a silver hair adornment thingy (sorry I can't remember the name of it but it is small and was traded to the Indians) and miscellaneous pieces of copper fragments.

Then I found a bucketlister that might be the best treasure of the trip. Near a tree I got a very solid 32 signal on the Nox 900 and dug down and noticed a "pipe". One end was pointed toward me and the other was going directly under the cedar tree. The thought that went through my head was "Is this a pipe or is it a barrel to a gun?" and I pulled it out and was in shock!

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It is a musket type pistol gun of oldness! I have no idea what type it was but it has a bit of character. It is 17 inches long and does have a makers mark but it is a bit hard to decipher. My mom put it through electrolysis and looks pretty good. Inside the barrel it is clear and there is a small hole to the side where the percussion cap or flint would go. I checked the area thoroughly but did not find anything else that would go with it.

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The next day my mom insisted we revisit the place. We spent probably 5 hours there and I had more success. I found a few more buttons and some more copper fragments and an iron arrowhead that was with some piece of trash. I also found my first "Strike-O-Light" and an iron ball that I am 99% sure is grape shot for a cannon. It is about 1.5" in diameter.

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Then I found what might be even better than the gun barrel... Maybe. I do not remember the TID but what popped out of the hole was a lead disc that had a mold seam on the back and when I turned it around I noticed what I first thought was a coat of arms on a watch fob or something like that. It was not until this afternoon when I took all the pics and I showed my son and he realized that it was the British Royal Coat of Arms! People in my area do not find British items very often and that is exciting enough but I am still very interested in what it was. Was it a type of seal? Was it similar to a US Box Plate from the civil war where it was put onto a box of military items? I have not done the research yet but I am optimistic it is related to the British military.

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Below is one of many versions of the British Coat of Arms and the lead item I found has all of the details on it.
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And here is a pic of everything...

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I have had some amazing hunts over the years and this past weekend's finds might be some of my best. I hope some of you can give me some insight on these finds.

Thanks for looking!
Jared

[fyrffytr1]

:perfect10:

[Tony Two-Cent]

I would be speechless too! That is an amazing trove of historical finds! :wow:

I hope you are able to obtain more information about the knife blades, pistol barrel and coat of arms. So much incredible history there! Thank goodness you rescued all of this stuff!

:perfect10:

[Digger_O'Dell]

:perfect10:

Thant's just amazing Jared! Guess our talk about a hidden hoard wasn't too far off the mark. I can't wait for the follow up of the research including what you find about the maker's marks. I'm sure the coat of arms won't be too hard to nail down.

[del]

:shocked03: Super finds Jared ! love the breech flintlock pistol barrel and trade items , incredible detecting area you have ! keep them coming !!

Dan

[The Rebel]

WTG on an amazing hunt!

[Full Metal Digger]

Wow, Jared, I don't even know where to begin! Incredible finds from a very important time in our history. The knife blades are very interesting to me. Especially the hallmarks. In medieval literature and art, the crossed keys are the keys to Heaven, and they are held by St. Peter. Combine that with the crusader cross, and I think you have a Jesuit knife blade. The real question is, was it hand forged or dropforged? Typically, the hallmarks went away once the technology for dropforging was invented. That's because the blades were being stamped out for a multitude of different knife makers. As for the bug hallmark, could it possibly be a honeybee? Napoleon liked to think of bees as being symbolic of his empire (1803-1813). The musket barrel is so cool as well as the buttons, copper culture artifacts, and silver trade items! You definitely hit a jackpot with these hunts!

[Bucknut]

Wow, Jared, I don't even know where to begin! Incredible finds from a very important time in our history. The knife blades are very interesting to me. Especially the hallmarks. In medieval literature and art, the crossed keys are the keys to Heaven, and they are held by St. Peter. Combine that with the crusader cross, and I think you have a Jesuit knife blade. The real question is, was it hand forged or dropforged? Typically, the hallmarks went away once the technology for dropforging was invented. That's because the blades were being stamped out for a multitude of different knife makers. As for the bug hallmark, could it possibly be a honeybee? Napoleon liked to think of bees as being symbolic of his empire (1803-1813). The musket barrel is so cool as well as the buttons, copper culture artifacts, and silver trade items! You definitely hit a jackpot with these hunts!

Your thoughts about the knife blades are VERY interesting indeed! Thank you for the insight.

Man I need to get back up there!!

[Digger_O'Dell]

I've been trying to research these knife stamps since I saw the post. These stamps are fairly easy to look up as silver hallmarks, but anything about knives seems to be a total mystery. Either the information is all about the more common modern knives (~1890-present) such as certain specific brands such as Bowie, Swiss Army types, or even specialized military blades. There's also a few resources on very specific ancient blades such as blades made for royalty in China, or a few other specific makers that made very expensive one of a kind ornamental blades. I'm sure there have to be some specific resources for CW swords and such too, but there seems to be absolutely nothing on colonial era daily duty, hunting, military or trade blades anywhere. I ran into the same problem long ago when trying to identify the makers marks on a Revolutionary War triangle blade socket bayonet my parents bought at an auction.

[Jeff (or)]

Holy moly!!! Congrats!!!!!!!

Jeff

[Digger Don]

:perfect10:
That is an amazing assortment of finds. All very cool, but I absolutely love the buttons!!

[Lodge Scent]

You have one of the most exciting detecting sites ever. The amount of just great finds that have come from there is amazing. You must have enough for a museum at this point.

[Bucknut]

I have been doing some research on the pistol barrel and on the Coat of Arms. I am still not 100% sure about the exact history of these items but this is what I have found out so far.

The barrel belonged to a Long Barreled Flintlock pistol. There is not too many examples on the internet but I did find one that is fairly close. I am NOT saying that this is the gun but it does have the correct shape and length. The others that I found are either completely round or have a ton of intricate design work done to them. Link is: https://www.hermann-historica.de/en/auctions/lot/id/274251

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This particular pistol is from the 1630s which seems too old for what I found. I believe that the barrel I found was dropped in the mid to late 1700's...but that is also just a guess. Did pistols last for more than 100years? maybe? I tried researching what the British soldiers used since they occupied the fort during the mid 1700's but nothing matched this.

I plan to either make a display of it just as is or perhaps make a stock for it and display it that way. A good winter project.

About the Royal Coat of Arms that I found. It has the Fleur de Lis on the shield so it is prior to 1801. It is my understanding that the US took over Fort Mackinac in 1796 and then breifly lost it in 1812 before the British peacefully surrendered it back. So the Royal Coat of Arms that I found I would guess is from some time prior to 1796 when the British occupied it. So King George II or the III but I have not found a coat of arms example that matches perfectly. I wish I could find out what this was placed on...in my mind's eye it was on a crate of black powder or cannon balls.

Well in a few days I am planning to go back up the cottage to close up...will only take a few hours to do that which then leaves me a few more days to relax. Hmmm what should I do with all that extra time up there? :dontknow:

[del]

17 inches for a pistol barrel is unusually long , are you measuring from the touch hole or to the end of the breech ?

[Bucknut]

It is the total length of the item I found. With the handle it could be close to 24 inches long.

Do you think it is not a pistol? Were there short flintlock musket rifles? Gee I thought I was onto something but maybe not?

[del]

It is the total length of the item I found. With the handle it could be close to 24 inches long.

Do you think it is not a pistol? Were there short flintlock musket rifles? Gee I thought I was onto something but maybe not?

well there were carbines during the Revolutionary war but I believe they were still a bit longer than what you've got , I think its a pistol barrel (unless it was cut to shorten) but most 13 inch barrels are uncommon . the one i found a few years ago was in the neighborhood of 11 to 13 inches71241 and a big caliber .50 to .70

[Digger_O'Dell]

Just my 2 cents worth here. Modern pistols have barrel lengths 12 inches or more in some iterations. I used to have a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 mag with a 12" barrel. The purpose for this is far longer range and better accuracy. I used mine for deer hunting, so I fired custom hand loads and had a 2x-8x Burris scope which allowed me to keep a good pattern out to 250 yards, yet still had the open sights for short range brush shots if needed. Another company, Thompson Center, has interchangeable pistol barrels to 14" and calibers from .22lr to .45-70 government. (Just in case you need to take down a buffalo or grizzly bear).

So, if I recall some of my antique firearm hobby days correctly, there were certainly some very long barreled pistols in the past. With slow burning low yield black powder, the longer barrels allowed a much bigger powder charge and a longer burn time to get the most velocity and accuracy out of the projectile. There were also other gun varieties that were convertible-meaning the shooter could fairly easily exchange pistol grips with a rifle stock making it into a short barrel rifle. Not the best for either configuration, but often better than lugging 2 heavy firearms around.

So in short, without actually nailing down the stamps and finding the wood parts, it will likely be nearly impossible to know for sure what this gun looked like.

[OxShoeDrew]

:omg: Your finds there have been astounding!!! Do you have them together in a display area, Jared? :omg:

[badgers325]

Jared,

Congrats to you! This is the kind of items that I absolutely love finding. While finding old coins is nice too, the history behind the finds, where you found them and figuring out what they are is the real fun. I am so happy for you!! Congratulations again!!!!!

[calabash digger]

Stunners!