Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the age of this Indian Fur Trader brooch?
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the age of this Indian Fur Trader brooch?
On Instagram- oxshoedrew
341 years old
Oldest find: 5,000 year old copper spearhead
Oldest coin: 1699 William III halfpenny
Purdiest coin: 1832 Capped Bust quarter
Coolest find: USA button with blue threads still on shank
"He who would search for pearls must dive below."
Lifetime totals:10 Large Cents, 422 Indian Heads, 2 Two Cent Pieces, 1 Capped Bust Half Dime, 1 Seated Half Dime, 10 Shield Nickels, 68 V Nickels, 125 Buffalo Nickels, 31 War Nickels, 16 Seated Dimes, 133 Barber Dimes, 407 Mercury Dimes, 252 Rosies, 4 Seated Quarters, 18 Barber Quarters, 21 Standing Liberty Quarters, 90 Silver Washingtons, 1 Seated Half, 3 Barber Halves, 17 Walking Liberty HalvesYouTube Channel: Tony Two-Cent https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmz...RlHTBIU42bUORg
Monday, June 3rd, 1709...we're still working on the exact time, we think after lunch.
A few people told me they think it's a medieval annular brooch. One guy said he found one in MA which he calls medieval. People were surprised mine was found in the states. BUT I do not believe this. At this point I still believe Jeff nailed it. I'm guessing this comes from near the beginnings of the fur trade in North America, maybe late 1600s to early 1700s. I think this because it was found in NE CT and I thought all the beavers were hunted out and the trade moved west past those dates...but I'm just guessing. I was hoping someone could date it through the style like shoe buckles.
On Instagram- oxshoedrew
All I can say is that it looks very much like the medieval brooches that people find in the UK and Germany.
Lifetime totals:10 Large Cents, 422 Indian Heads, 2 Two Cent Pieces, 1 Capped Bust Half Dime, 1 Seated Half Dime, 10 Shield Nickels, 68 V Nickels, 125 Buffalo Nickels, 31 War Nickels, 16 Seated Dimes, 133 Barber Dimes, 407 Mercury Dimes, 252 Rosies, 4 Seated Quarters, 18 Barber Quarters, 21 Standing Liberty Quarters, 90 Silver Washingtons, 1 Seated Half, 3 Barber Halves, 17 Walking Liberty HalvesYouTube Channel: Tony Two-Cent https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmz...RlHTBIU42bUORg
Oldest find: 5,000 year old copper spearhead
Oldest coin: 1699 William III halfpenny
Purdiest coin: 1832 Capped Bust quarter
Coolest find: USA button with blue threads still on shank
"He who would search for pearls must dive below."
Here's my 2 cents worth. I did some searching online and found countless medieval ring brooches and cloak pins that look nearly identical, although with a variation in decorations. Its also known that the Vikings had been to Connecticut. Specifically the Mystic Ct. region as found on one Viking map. So my guess is it could be from that time period as it fits the design style period and known visitation by European travelers.
One other way to verify it would be to analyze the metal it's made of. I suspect it may have a lot of silver content since it didn't oxidize like an iron piece would have, although not nearly as high as coin silver which also lends me to think viking.
Last edited by Digger_O'Dell; 02-06-2023 at 06:22 PM.
Equipment:
Minelab: CTX 3030, GPX 4800, X-Terra 705. Whites TDI SL.
2024: Silver 1, Gold 0
Best finds: 28 silver dime spill, 1800s Dutch customs seal.
Oldest/best coins: Late 1700's Chinese Cash Coin, 1837 Upper Canada large cent, 1877 Seated Dime
Oldest Relic find: 1800 Sailors Luck token
You Tube: Rediscovering America
Quote: Treasures are like potato chips, you can never have just one!
After reading Digger's response, I will say it is clearly a modern reproduction Drew and you don't want it anymore. It's just wasting good space in your finds dispaly case. But I'll give you $5 bucks for it just to take it off you hands.
Oldest find: 5,000 year old copper spearhead
Oldest coin: 1699 William III halfpenny
Purdiest coin: 1832 Capped Bust quarter
Coolest find: USA button with blue threads still on shank
"He who would search for pearls must dive below."
That would be sooo cool! Thanks, Chris! You know, as a kid I remember listening to Moondog The Viking on 6th ave. He was a blind musician who played on the street everyday dressed as a Viking. He was before the naked cowboy and more psychedelic. I always assumed the piece was silver, I have some colonial cuffs that have the same dark silver look to them.
Jeff... we may never know its origins, it would be tough to pin it down.
On Instagram- oxshoedrew
This is going to blow your mind, but ALL my reference books put that brooch 13th and 14th century! I've found several but NONE as nice as yours! I'll post some pics later so you can see what I'm looking at. Congratulations on an extremely rare find!
Oldest Coin: 100-60 BC Gallic bronze coin (Sequani Tribe) ☺Oldest Silver Coin: 1156 hammered Pfennig from (now) Bavaria ☺Oldest U.S. coin: 1805 Draped Bust Large Cent ☺Best Coins EVER: 1625 4 Sols from Kingdom of Chateau Renaud, France, 1662 15 Kreuzers, Leopold I, Austria ☺Best Relics: Bronze Age Arrowheads & Spearhead, 2c Roman silver ring, complete medieval knight's spur (x6) ☺YouTube Channel: Full Metal Digger ☺Instagram: Full_Metal_Digger ☺
Drew, here are some reference pics on your brooch. After thinking about it for a bit, I think you have made a significant archeological find. It's possible this brooch is evidence of European contact with native Americans that is much earlier than previously thought. It is not hard to imagine this item being passed down several generations within the tribe until the fur trader days when it was lost. I recently read about a guy up in Newfoundland who found a 1420's English gold coin at an early site. Have you considered showing it to the museum to get their take on it?
Oldest Coin: 100-60 BC Gallic bronze coin (Sequani Tribe) ☺Oldest Silver Coin: 1156 hammered Pfennig from (now) Bavaria ☺Oldest U.S. coin: 1805 Draped Bust Large Cent ☺Best Coins EVER: 1625 4 Sols from Kingdom of Chateau Renaud, France, 1662 15 Kreuzers, Leopold I, Austria ☺Best Relics: Bronze Age Arrowheads & Spearhead, 2c Roman silver ring, complete medieval knight's spur (x6) ☺YouTube Channel: Full Metal Digger ☺Instagram: Full_Metal_Digger ☺
OMG!!!! I don't know what to think Thanks so much for the info, Dave!! I guess I have to show a museum! What I was doing was writing a piece for our historical society about the fur trade in our area and was going to showcase that find...but it seems I have more research to do.
On Instagram- oxshoedrew
That's some amazing info! Looking at the photo it's difficult at best to judge what material it's made of. Even looking at the photos in the book many different materials look very similar. Silver? Pewter? Bronze? I would certainly get your museum involved. Make sure you have documentation (or notation) of the exact site and depth you found it.
Also, I would get back there ASAP and see if there's any more to be found. Who knows if there isn't a Saxon hoard there! Yeah, that would really blow the historians away!
Equipment:
Minelab: CTX 3030, GPX 4800, X-Terra 705. Whites TDI SL.
2024: Silver 1, Gold 0
Best finds: 28 silver dime spill, 1800s Dutch customs seal.
Oldest/best coins: Late 1700's Chinese Cash Coin, 1837 Upper Canada large cent, 1877 Seated Dime
Oldest Relic find: 1800 Sailors Luck token
You Tube: Rediscovering America
Quote: Treasures are like potato chips, you can never have just one!
Although I can't say for sure just by looking at one picture, I'm thinking two possibilities: 1. Some version of arsenic bronze or, 2. A copper-tin-silver mix. In Europe, arsenic bronze (tombac) starts to show up in the 1600's and is of course, quite prevalent by the 1700's. I think Drew should find someone with a metal analysis spectrometer and get a definitive answer.
Oldest Coin: 100-60 BC Gallic bronze coin (Sequani Tribe) ☺Oldest Silver Coin: 1156 hammered Pfennig from (now) Bavaria ☺Oldest U.S. coin: 1805 Draped Bust Large Cent ☺Best Coins EVER: 1625 4 Sols from Kingdom of Chateau Renaud, France, 1662 15 Kreuzers, Leopold I, Austria ☺Best Relics: Bronze Age Arrowheads & Spearhead, 2c Roman silver ring, complete medieval knight's spur (x6) ☺YouTube Channel: Full Metal Digger ☺Instagram: Full_Metal_Digger ☺
The lighting on this pic makes it look almost iron, which it is not. I was thinking some kind of silver because, around here, tombac doesn't come out of the ground without some crud on it.
On Instagram- oxshoedrew
Equipment:
Minelab: CTX 3030, GPX 4800, X-Terra 705. Whites TDI SL.
2024: Silver 1, Gold 0
Best finds: 28 silver dime spill, 1800s Dutch customs seal.
Oldest/best coins: Late 1700's Chinese Cash Coin, 1837 Upper Canada large cent, 1877 Seated Dime
Oldest Relic find: 1800 Sailors Luck token
You Tube: Rediscovering America
Quote: Treasures are like potato chips, you can never have just one!
Wait, it has to be silver, its a solid 87 on the D2 vdi....can't be tombac, right?
On Instagram- oxshoedrew
With numbers that high on the D2 (XP Deus II, right?), it could be straight up bronze or some mix of copper/silver. I've had large dandy tombacs hit in upper 80's in Germany, but in England they hit closer to the 50s/60s. Probably just the differences in alloy formulas between regions. I've never found a tombac in America with my Deus, but I'm thinking most were probably English imports. A good pawn shop or a gold/silver buying shop should have a spectrometer. I think it will be very helpful to know for 100% sure what it is made of.
Oldest Coin: 100-60 BC Gallic bronze coin (Sequani Tribe) ☺Oldest Silver Coin: 1156 hammered Pfennig from (now) Bavaria ☺Oldest U.S. coin: 1805 Draped Bust Large Cent ☺Best Coins EVER: 1625 4 Sols from Kingdom of Chateau Renaud, France, 1662 15 Kreuzers, Leopold I, Austria ☺Best Relics: Bronze Age Arrowheads & Spearhead, 2c Roman silver ring, complete medieval knight's spur (x6) ☺YouTube Channel: Full Metal Digger ☺Instagram: Full_Metal_Digger ☺
Drew, here is one from Quebec that is similar to yours.
https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/...brooch.633761/
Oldest find: 5,000 year old copper spearhead
Oldest coin: 1699 William III halfpenny
Purdiest coin: 1832 Capped Bust quarter
Coolest find: USA button with blue threads still on shank
"He who would search for pearls must dive below."
I like the Brooch Drew and I like the good discussion it has brought to the forum . I'm some what in the middle on its age and could go either way really ....
A fur trade era ring brooch would be the more plausible approach to this and it wouldn't be out of the realm of it being a more personalized or fancied up kind to fetch a bit more of a premium or special gift to someone to gain influence .
On the other hand I could see it being a much older heirloom ring brooch brought from the old country and lost as well , no doubt someone was very upset at its loss in either case , Was there anything else found in the immediate area to help with its timeframe ? I hope some real evidence can be found to attribute this to its correct age but my real question is .....
Why wasn't this up on the banner !
Dan
"Honesty is an expensive gift ,
so don't expect it from cheap people"
XP Deus II , DFX ,TDI sl -
Click here to view my finds album