Surgical Surprise!

[M-Taliesin]

Howdy Folks!
Well, we got up early and headed out for the far distant south part of the city for me to have knee surgery today. We drove 25 miles through snow and black ice highway to get there. Got all squared away in a hospital gown, trussed up for telemetry, and ready for surgery except...

They could not find a vein. They stuck me in several spots, most notably both wrists. Both of those were excruciatingly painful. I've had a whole lot of needles stuck in me in 61 years, but none ever came close to being as painful as these. One nurse tried, then another. She really did the Roto Rooter job on my righ wrist. Then the anestesiologist tried his hand, and he really did a number on my left wrist. I was ready to call it quits, but the surgeon persuaded me to give the anestesiologist one more shot at getting an IV going. So that dude returned and tried to start a line through my foot. He failed in that attempt as well.

I told them I wanted to reschedule and wasn't about to hang around while these guys practiced using me like a Voodoo doll! We are looking at the 25th of January for the next attempt. I walked out looking like a scene from the movie Stigmata!

When I am ready for surgery next, I am planning to have my doctor order a visit to the hospital nearby, have them access a vein and seal it up with a butterfly valve, then go to the surgical center the following day with the plumbing already installed. That oughtta fix their wagon!

Meanwhile, I am intensely bummed out!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[RaZR]

I would think after so many attempts (say two) they would get a phlebotomist from the lab to do the job right. That's what they do aaaaaaaalll day long.
My wife ends up with great bruises from them trying to re-angle the needle while it's in part way.

[coinnut]

Geeze 8/ You would think it was their first IV lol Sorry they had to practice on you. They should be made to reinburse you for your trouble lol That would get them to do it right Well, I think your idea is a good one. Let someone do it for them, so they can just relax a bit. They are too wound up lol

[Epi-hunter]

Ouch Sorry you had to go through all of that!

The thing is, and I can tell you this from my experience as one, physicians don't get all that much practice starting IV's The nurses typically are much better at it, but some are a lot better than others. I like your plan of having them establish IV access before you get there next time. How frustrating for you to have to go through all the mental preparations of having surgery only to get there and have to reschedule it :bangahead01:

Next time you are in a situation where someone is trying to insert an IV or draw blood I would suggest telling them before they start that you are a hard stick and to get an expert (phlebotomist or experienced nurse). Also they can use moist compresses prior to trying which helps. Hope next time goes better!

[Nitro 54]

Bummer M-T ,,,, Your veins just didn't want to be poked, so the puckered up on you..

[M-Taliesin]

Next time you are in a situation where someone is trying to insert an IV or draw blood I would suggest telling them before they start that you are a hard stick and to get an expert (phlebotomist or experienced nurse). Also they can use moist compresses prior to trying which helps. Hope next time goes better!

Howdy Epi!
I told them at the outset that I'm a hard stick. I always tell them I'm a hard stick. It is something that I joke with them about. I poke a little fun at them while they're busy trying to poke me. I also tell them they'd better be real good if they expect to get a line started with me. Usually the person feels challenged and will try it once on their own before getting somebody else involved, just to see if they can actually do it. They won't succeed, of course, and I'll poke a little more fun at them for even trying. So, they'll go fetch somebody else, and they won't have any better luck. It is only after I've got more holes than a screen door that they finally get somebody *really* good and they'll get a line going. And I'll use my sense of humor to keep my keel straight while they're sticking me over and over and over again.

Once, at the University of Chicago, I had 5 different people stick me over 35 times trying to draw a blood sample. They all failed, and I walked out with wind whistling through my body and a fine tune produced thereby. That Windy City was treated to an impromptu concert as I walked back to the car! Okay, I exaggerate, but they actually did stick me over 35 times and still never got anything at all.

Today was the worst I've ever experienced. I started out in good humor, and made a gentle jibe as the first one to try missed... as expected. It was the second one who really did the damage. She drilled that thing into my wrist at an oblique angle and I'm pretty certain was ramming the needle into a tendon. The pain lasted for hours afterward. The gas-passer tried his hand and did amost as badly to the other wrist. By then I was telling them I'd like to reschedule the whole thing. That's when the surgeon himself suggested giving the anesthesist another try, using the foot. I told the doc, &quotne shot. That's it. One shot and if he fails, we reschedule!

Guess what. Instead of using a nice large vein running up the medial instep, he went for one of those thin little spider veins on the top. And missed again! Stick a fork in me, I'm done! Already tenderized, but not ready for any more abuse. This was only 6 sticks altogether, with 3 of them among the most painful I've ever had in my entire life.

Trying to think through what could be done different for the next go 'round, I figured I'd go to folks who had success with me before, and get them to start a line then plug me up so I could go to the surgery center with the plumbing already installed. It's like metal detecting: If you want to find gold, go to where gold was found before!

Thanks for your suggestion about using moist packs (probably heated for best result) as nobody ever tried that one before. I'll remember to suggest that next time around!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[Epi-hunter]

Wow That is quite a series of experiences you have had

I am the first to admit that I'm not the person to start an IV if the vein isn't sticking out at me. I don't like hurting people and I am not willing to do the 'digging around' thing

Yes, warm compresses increase blood flow to the area and therefore the size of the veins and make the vein more penetrable; I have seen it make a difference.

Definitely ask for whoever has had success in the past! And hopefully anyone else who has to try can use that same area.

In extreme circumstances we have placed scalp IVs a couple of times, and have resorted to central lines (definitely not the optimal choice, but sometimes no other choice).

[M-Taliesin]

Howdy Epi!
Scalp sounds better than sub-clav or femoral, which I figured would be the next cavalcade of hurt coming my way. I even once had a EMS tech go after the carotid artery for his stick. There are other choices that I really won't care to experience... again!

Thanks for your input, and you've surely provided a real good idea for me to take along for the next dry hole extravaganza!

See, the thing is this. I don't really bother with veins. I move stuff around by osmosis!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[odave]

Mel ...You have to tell them to find a vein with Blood in it ..remember most of Your veins are full of Gold .. lol ..

Bummer Buddy !! Epi -Hunter is right get a Nurse...My Wife is a labor and delivery Nurse
When most of them fail to get the Vein they call My wife in, she finds it all the time.

Good Luck on the next go around !!

Dave

[M-Taliesin]

When most of them fail to get the Vein they call My wife in, she finds it all the time.

Howdy Dave!
Now that was hilarious right there, I don't care who ya are! Veins of gold! Don't I wish!

As for your wife, would she be interested in a vacation to Colorado?
Looks like I need all the help I can get!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[Epi-hunter]

There are other choices that I really won't care to experience... again!

I wasn't going to mention those lol

Good luck next time around

[Nitro 54]

My youngest daughter does needle sticking M-T and she tells me when someone comes in and tells here that she might have trouble getting a vein, she grabs the smallest of needles to get a vein the first time. Better luck next time pin cushion

[Dimeman]

OUCH !!!!!!!

Sorry to hear your day went south fast. Hoped you would have gotten the procedure done.

Don't they know they are hampering into your metal detecting time thinkingabout:

Let's hope the next trip will be better.

[Napa Steve]

How did they ever miss, Mel





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[Nitro 54]

Them veins are on steroids Steve rofl rofl rofl

[Evan/tn]

Hope the next one attempting it has a better aim,sorry to hear you had to put it off,i know you wanted to get it out of the way,
Hang in there Mel

[hobbes_lives]

M-Taliesin,

Sorry to hear about your experience. I've been a pin cushion to nurses a time or two myself, so I know where you're coming from.

One piece of advise that I can give is to drink lots of fluids the day before. Your veins will collapse if you happen to be dehydrated when they try to stick you, so make sure that you are well hydrated beforehand.

Good luck next time!

[M-Taliesin]

One piece of advise that I can give is to drink lots of fluids the day before. Your veins will collapse if you happen to be dehydrated when they try to stick you, so make sure that you are well hydrated beforehand.

Howdy Hobbes!
I've been doing some studying up this morning and learned a few things. When it is cold, your veins will likely be more difficult. Yesterday was the coldest day we've seen around here in quite awhile. While I dressed warmly, it was nevertheless cold. Hot packs could have been placed on the area to stimulate blood flow, thus making a stick easier. A blood pressure cuff could have been used for compression rather than the rubber material, and would have provided a great area and more even compression. That wasn't tried either. An AV300 could have been used to see the veins more clearly even when otherwise invisible. Suppose they didn't have one of them handy, but an illuminator or newer otoscope could have been used with similar effect.

The point being, they didn't try anything apart from sticking my foot, that was outside usual venapuncture technique. They just kept sticking, without any hope of better result. And they weren't terribly concerned with how much pain they caused. The ones that went into both of my wrists were the most painful sticks I've ever had.

Hydration beforehand is helpful, but not so much when you are ordered to stop taking anything by mouth for up to 10 hours befhorehand. Any extra hydration is excreted long before it would be helpful.

So, to paraphrase the ancients, physician heal thyself. Or in this instance, patient, CYA!
The most effective approach I can determine is to remove this issue from their hands and take a personally assertive stand at achieving a solution. Get somebody really good to start a line, and then close it up so I can simply arrive at surgery with the plumbing already installed. Then they don't need to fuss with it, as I'd be all set up and ready to go!

My concern is that when you make something idiot proof, along comes a better class of idiot.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

[Nitro 54]

I would have made them quit along time before you did M-T.. I'm not a pin cusion for their practice.

[coinnut]

My concern is that when you make something idiot proof, along comes a better class of idiot.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

rofl rofl How true